Thursday, January 9, 2014

Fast Track

Fast Track =  a bullshit WWDB/Amway program to whip the cult followers into a frenzy of making a few bucks fast.

In reality the Amway ambot fast track is a program that goes nowhere fast. Its to hype up new ambots you know the bastards who go around bragging that they’re just getting started in their new business. Amway and the assholes in the Amway upline hope that when these new recruits make a few extra bucks in the first few months they’re in the scam that it will motivate them to keep going for a few more months even when the money aint coming in no more. You get a few friends and family at the beginning who will buy stuff but no one likes paying high prices for shitty products so unlikely to get repeat business from suckers the ambot has already ripped off.

Maybe some ambots will show up to say I’ve got Fast Track all wrong and the criteria has changed but I’ll try to lay it out how our Emerald told us. In other words its the usual Amway fast talk double talk to excite the audience and confuse them with the facts. Or lack thereof.

Fast Track is usually on the agenda at any Amway WWDB function, Dream Night, FED Free Enterprise Days, Family Reunion, Spring Leadership, all smaller meetings.

If they’re still calling it Fast Track and judging by people searching for it it must still be, then that tells you times ain’t changing much even though the upline tries to scam everyone by saying “exciting changes are just about to happen”. Ambots are still showing up at this blog after typing in Amway Fast Track into Google so that tells me its still around.

So Fast Track ain’t new. It ain’t exciting. It ain’t a change. Its the same old bullshit they were teaching years ago.

OK the Emerald talked real fast, all the better to confuse us. Seeing as how most of the cult followers in the room were already brainwashed they were able to accept what he said with their usual unconditional love and devotion and never question upline.

And I could have the facts wrong. Perhaps some Fast Track criteria has changed over the years.

Hang on to your hats while I try to dissect the mumbo jumbo.

The program called Fast Track has 2 phases. The first phase is referred to as 50/150. The IBO has to create volume, their own personal shopping and get clients. (Ha ha! Yeah good luck with that!) If the IBO is at least 150 PV (and here the Emerald says $500 in Amway purchases) out of which at least $50 is from clients the IBO gets an extra $50 bonus.

Wow! Whooppee! How exciting!

Then the Emerald drops the bomb. This Fast Track program is only available to new IBO’s in the first month of being in “the business”. Sucks for all the other IBO’s who have plugging along for months or years. Look around the room. There are no new IBO’s. Just the same cult followers who’ve been showing up for months and years.

But wait! The first phase ain’t over yet! In the second month the IBO has to keep the same suckers, err customers, and do the same thing over again for another check for $50. And do it again in the third month. Extra $50/month = $150 total for 3 months.

I’m sure everyone is sitting on the edges of their seats breathlessly waiting to hear about Phase 2 because after all the asshole Emerald said Fast Track has two phases.

OK. Wait for it. You don’t want to go home before this very important information is disclosed.

Phase 2: show 10 people the plan and sign up two of them. (Yeah right. We all know how easy it is to find 10 suckers to show the board plan presentation to let alone sign up 2 of them.) But forget two people. Go for three. Sponsor three people who can do the above 50/150 and the sponsoring IBO will earn an extra $200.

Then the asshole Emerald spends the next ten minutes going over the numbers if you can find even more people than the three previously mentioned.

You’ll be an Amway gazillionaire by the end of the year! That’s right! Working part time ten to fifteen hours a week in your spare time! Then you’ll never have to work another day in your life! You’ll be walking the beaches of the world and the residual checks will just keep rolling on in forever! It gets even better!!! When you die you can will your Amway business to your spouse or your kids or whoever and they will have residual income for the rest of their lives too! Woo hoo!!! Riches for the descendents forever and ever!!!

Makes you wonder if the Emerald was smoking something funny before he showed up for the meeting!


  1. congratulations to you because i know you will NEVER involve in amway/ any mlm business for your whole life.

    you might get something 20-30 years later that you child/grandchilidren join and succeeded in that direct selling.

    simple logic as that, if you have toothache, do you go to a dentist or a mechanic?

    today i have concern about amway business, should i consult some1 who quitted half way? or someone who is really successful?

    think about it dude.

    1. Consult with both to make a decision. Ambots only want you to talk to othe ambots who will lie to you to make a buck. Also talk to a banket, accountant, and financial planner and show them a business plan and get their opinion.

    2. Neat, Ambots are coming out of the woodwork. Must be close to conference time.

      Anywho, hello, "think about it dude" (TAID). Thank you for congratulating us for not being involved in MLM.

      I'm not sure what you are trying to say in your second line. If you are trying to say direct selling is the 'wave of the future', it is cute. If you are trying to say you can will it to the next generation. It is an irrelevant point.

      As for the rest of this, think about it dude, survivorship bias. Look it up and think about it, dude.

      Also, stop with the 'dentist' or 'doctor' nonsense. This is business, and if you have an issue with your business, you should seek help from a business advisor, not your upline. Why? Well, from what I understand, they are all truck drivers, and teachers, nurses, students, gardeners, and an entire lot of people without any true business experience.


    3. "simple logic as that, if you have toothache, do you go to a dentist or a mechanic?
      today i have concern about amway business, should i consult some1 who quitted half way? or someone who is really successful? "

      That's tired old Amspeak. And when you break it down, makes no sense.

      If I'm wondering if something is legit or a scam, do I consult with someone who got into it before me and can say from experience what REALLY happens with it, or do I go direct to the scammer who is going to talk of dreams and mansions and glory because he wants my money? Who do you think will most likely tell you the whole story?

      As for "successful", odds are your upline are losers "faking it till they make it". Lying is second nature to them to keep their victims in the game of losing money to them.

      And I laugh about the "quitting halfway". Define HALFWAY. Is that before or after the two to five years? And if you are up to 7 years and still losing money, are you still halfway? How about at 10 years? Just where is "halfway"? Of course there is no answer because just like everything it's a constant carrot illusion held out. "You can't quit now with success just around the corner!" 2 years later "You can't quit now with success just around the corner!" 4 years later "You can't quit now with success just around the corner!" Etc.

      With a less than 1% chance of every making money in Amway, odds are success is never just around the corner.


    4. You probably wont be back to read this but others might and find this post worth while. Dentist vs Mechanic... Amway false equivalences 101. I have toothache yes I go to a dentist. I want to make money I might speak to an owner of business which has a track record of success(say a gas station owner, a restaurantuer, a general contractor) But why would I talk to seller of a model that (unless one is lucky enough to get cut in on the tools scam) is basically impossible to make even minimum wage at? Keep at it though... you are almost there... you will be walking the beaches of the world any day now....

  2. Sheesh.... as part of your ongoing list of things to do instead of Amway or these awful conventions...
    1) Dig up your health insurance policy. Figure out what gets covered and how it works. I guarantee it'll be more useful than whatever emeralds say.
    2) figure out how to file taxes by yourself. The IRS is a pain in the neck, but you do need to deal with them, and at least they've got more integrity (insult very much intended)

    They're just spewing the same garbage, but packaged different.

    1. Anonymous - thats very true. Amway propaganda is recycling the bullshit.

  3. Are you in business for yourself as well Anna? Sounds like you know a lot about it .

    Just a quick, unsarcastic look at this from an actual business perspective...

    Fast Track = Business Incentive = Normal for all other businesses, not just Amway.

    Quick Description: Supplier pays additional bonus money to individuals who produce ideal or more volume during their initial year in business.

    Reason for this? You can go with what Anna is saying if you are looking for a negative outlook. Or you could look at it as something meant to encourage people’s business development, promote momentum and work habit, as well as to incentivize people to try and build their business faster. More money for Amway, but also more money for the business owner. Win win scenario? Obviously people here will try to discredit this comment.

    It’s interesting, this Fast Track program was actually voted on when it was brought up, and a lot of the WWDB leaders that are on the board voted against implementing this incentive, as they found that it almost devalued the actual opportunity. Their thoughts were that giving people more for simply doing what they already should be doing, or at least be doing what was being taught, wasn’t necessary.

    100PV personal use is an example of what has been proven to work for most people, but you can generate 150PV of all client volume if you want and make more immediate monthly profit (Approximately $200.00 after inclusion of retail margin & bonuses). It’s easy to acquire clients utilizing the 180day satisfaction guarantee. Do you realize how much money a company/supplier loses if their products are terrible and they offer a 6 month refund/satisfaction policy? Everything would be returned and they would go out of business! Also...if you wouldn’t try a consumable product that is guaranteed...there’s something wrong there I think. The “shitty Amway products” are obviously not as terrible as this post suggests.

    Have you tried returning products to Amway after purchase? You should try it sometime. It is actually quite amazing how they ask no questions, they just give your money back to you and most of the time tell you that you can keep the stuff you bought anyway.

    This blog is fun. 

    1. Glad you think the blog is fun and yeah I knew someone would eventually show up with the current Fast Track figures. Yes I've mentioned before we own a real business with real employees and a real accountant and a real piece of land where it sits. We have real business licence, insurance, bank accounts, and all the stuff that real business owners deal with. Running a pretend Amway business we didn't have to take all those steps.

    2. Oh I was specifically asking if you owned your own Amway business. You seem to know (or think you know I guess) a lot about these kinds of details and incentive programs involved with the Amway opportunity. If you do not have your own Amway business, can I ask how you came to learn about these things? Just curious.

      Can I ask what steps you did take to create your own business? What kind of business is it? It's funny because everything you listed is everything that...well any business owner has lol, because if they do not have it, then they technically do not own a business and do not have access to tax benefits and/or business privileges.

      Again, just curious. You seem very knowledgeable.

    3. In my situation, with regards to the returning shitty products, I bought Nutrilite's multivitamin/fish oil/veggie tablet combo. They made me ill in ways I didn't think such things would do. My digestive track was in shambles. Yes, I tried different things to see if it actually was the vitamins, and it was. At the time, I was very much in love with an ambot, and supported her blindly, well, until they insisted I join, and that our relationship wouldn't survive with just one of us "owning" an Amway business. Anyway, I didn't want to return the vitamins, because I was afraid the profits she would make off of them would be taken away from her. This is the problem when social and economic circles become intertwined. Is it all like that? Doubtful, but I was just providing an example.

      I really have nothing against 'Fast Track' aside from the point that it does promote recruitment on top of sales. If an IBO brings in the equivalent of 2500PV in their first month, from customer sales, they don't qualify without building some downline.
      Many of my arguments, about the business itself, don't often stem from poor goods, or lack of quality service. I will continue to claim that AMOs use cult-like, brainwashing tactics, they promote greed over anything else (even what they teach), they lie cheat and steal for the dollar, "sell the hope not the soap", the entire motivational 'teaching' is downright wrong (if your friends and family don't support you, a new support network will be provided for you), and that AMOs promote recruitment over sales.
      If these products were valuable in an open market (IBOs create a closed market), Amway would make much more money with a deal to sell their wares through sales chains (Wal-Mart and the like) while maintaining IBO work in markets where such stores aren't available. Sure, the products carry a stigma about them, but that stigma is created by those who sell it, not the products themselves.

      Although, if these products were as valuable as IBOs claim, people would be climbing over each other to buy them from IBOs, not running the other direction, afraid they will be shown "the plan".


    4. Hey there Anna,

      I've had my own personal run-in with the fast-track last summer and it ended up being what ultimately made me quit. So fast track is essentially 150PV with at least 50PV being "clients" PV (i.e. order from clients or PV from your downline... if you have any).

      So, last summer, there was a special event called "Being with". To qualify, you had to reach 450PV for the june-august interval, which is three months. As you know, 150PV also happens to be the threshold for the fast-track... how convenient we thought.

      So my girlfriend and I really wanted to go so we busted our asses off trying to make saled and have people join. In the end though, we ended up with marginal sales and no one would join our business. So we disguised the numbers by buying stuff for ourselves and passing it up as "clients orders".

      The whole ordeal cost us about 750$ PER MONTH!!! Sure, we ended up with a nice... 60-65$ reward each month, but we were hyped! We had qualified for the "Being with..." day!!

      And what a day it was!!! First we went to Quebec city harbor to see a cruise ship... and by "see" I mean "see", not "visit". All we could do was watch from the shore and awe at its outward magnificience!

      Next was the Harley-Davidson shop... where you could gape at motorcycles and all sort of other stuff that neither me nor my girlfriend would ever buy because we don't like motorcycle.

      Next would be a local furniture shop where you can look at wonderful sofas, beds, tables and all kind of other stuff one might need eventually if he buys a house or moves in to his first appartment.

      And finally, the model-house visits! You know, just to make you realize you're probably never going to be able to afford them... unless you develop your network and work the business.

      At the end of the day, I was like... 2200$ spent and hours upon hours of effort FOR THIS!?!?!?!?! WTF MAN!!!!

      And so, that was how I decided to quit. Sure, the fast-track looks appealing, but how many people are artificially boosting their sales just to reach that threshold? Sure my upline never put any pressure... but when you fill in an order and realize you have 75-80-85PV... what are you gonna do? Leave it at that or desperately try to fill in that missing 25PV in order to get your bonus check at the end of the month?

      The same goes for the 150PV threshold. You say... "Damn, I'm 20-25PV away, just a little bit more"

      What you don't realize is that 25PV can amount to a LOT of money depending on what you buy.

      Anyway, fast-track is not a business incentive... it's a buying incentive, stimulating you to buy even more than you actually need.

      So there you have it... "Being with..." indeed!!!

    5. Hi Jerry,

      Well...welcome to the world of multivitamins? I don’t really know how else to respond to your complaint about your stomach ache... You’re in the same boat as EVERY other person in the world except for those who have taken Double X for years and are just used to it now. Do some research as to how the nutrients are absorbed and you will understand why you felt sick when you ate the vitamins.

      When you meet a traditional business owner who owns an average to successful company...does his/her partner support him/her and help with the business? Any person needs the love and support of his or her significant other if they want to make anything happen with a business endeavour, am I wrong? Maybe you saying no to launching as an IBO with this love of yours wasn’t all that supportive...

      You should try to return a product one of these days from someone else. It’s quite fascinating.

      That person may not qualify for any ADDITIONAL fast-track bonuses doing it that way, however running 2500 PV in customer volume will pay them approximately $1300.00 in bonus money plus almost $2000.00 in wholesale > retail profit, give or take depending on which products were sold. I don’t think anyone would be too disappointed in making that kind of money in their first month in business. I understand your point though, fast track is an incentive to help build more volume for the supplier (Amway), and is also meant to build more initial sustainability for your company bonuses as well. Sponsorship is necessary for this.

      So you’re saying you have no problem whatsoever with Amway, you just have a problem with the people who contract with Amway and misrepresent their own individual companies? Keep in mind, Amway only acts as a supplier of products and services. I just think it is kind of sad that people automatically judge all others based on the actions of few. It’s like saying “This basketball player is terrible, therefore all other basketball players are terrible.” On that note...what is the success rate of basketball players after factoring in ALL of them? What separates the two? Hard work and dedication to the point of almost being fanatical.

      Do you think that people could accomplish success in Network Marketing companies, or even traditional companies for that matter, without training or any kind of support? Let’s look at traditional businesses for a sec... I know several multi-million dollar traditional business owners who, constantly, travel great distances to go to motivational conferences and training sessions multiple times every year. It is considered a business expense to them because everyone who wants to be successful needs that stuff.

      Pick up a book on success and read. Is the book more credible than the teachings of someone contracting with Amway...even though the concepts are relatively exactly the same? Did the book brainwash you, or did Amway? Or is your negativity, or possibly your passionate hate for Amway blinding you to universal success principles?

      Your last comment is interesting. I don’t think anyone needs to claim that the products are top quality. Sales and public information alone say they are. People don’t climb over to buy them because the vast majority of people don’t know about them, because it’s a private industry. Pretty simple.


    6. Tobbi- as you discovered Amway is all about busting your asses for little profit and then hyping you up so you don't notice how much money you're spending. Thanks for sharing those numbers and the time wasted.

    7. Amway didn’t even do anything in Tobbi’s case, lol. He made those decisions. He made those errors in judgment. No one forced him to do anything and he failed to understand the purpose and primary motive around the incentive in the first place. From the sounds of most people he’s another example of not treating his business seriously, and quits at the first negative experience.

      So after quitting based on the result of his poor decision making ability...he comes here to complain about how it wasn’t his fault? And then Anna somehow correlates that as being Amway’s fault...

      I don’t... I don’t understand. That is simply mind-boggling.


    8. Adam - Amway is a blame the victim scam. You used Amspeak to blame Tobbi. A business plan that has over 99% failure rate is designed for failure no matter how much ambots try to blame the participant instead of the system. There are other blogs that go into the business end of things.

    9. That has nothing to do with anything. Label the dialog however you want, but the facts are very evident. I mean heck, the guy admitted that he committed fraud and spent thousands of dollars just to qualify for an incentive that he didn’t even know what was entailed in it...then when it wasn’t what he expected, he quit. Amway’s fault, right?!?!?! I you think running such a low level, just starting business is going to get you a free ticket to Maui? No, sir.

      All business is a 95% - 99% failure rate. Every single business that comes into being has a 95%+ rate of failure. Does that make the system wrong? The government? Society? Is it all just one gigantic scam to take advantage of people? Is your business a scam, Anna?

      Is sports a scam then as well? Think about the millions of people who dream of making it in professional sports, and only the fraction of a percent that actually accomplish it. By your logic, the system is flawed due to its 99%+ failure rate. Are the people on this blog ashamed because they watch, endorse, and support their national sports teams?

      I mean lets get honest please.


    10. You know, Adam did bring up an interesting point: Amway didn't do anything... and he's right. Amway NEVER does anything. With the tool scam, for example, it took YEARS for the corporation to even acknowledge its top-level IBOs were abusing their downline and even then, all they did was give a small tap on the hands of the offenders.

      The corporation could and should have been harsher with those who abused the system. They should have revoked the offenders' licenses, demanded that they pay retribution to those they double-crossed, taken control of the tool system and regulated on the various events taking place worldwide.

      Sure, instead of 12 G$ they might be making 6 G$ right now... but you can't put a price on reputation. Imagine if Amway had taken the hard stance from the start, saying "Okay fine... you want to organise events? We have to approve it! You want to sell material? We have to approve it! And, most important of all... offenders shall be harshly punished!"

      Instead, we have a broken system that blames the victim, has a failure rate of over 99% and is backed by a corporation that doesn't care what its salesmen say or do as long as money keep rolling in.

      Also an interesting number... of those 12 G$... 90% of it was done oversea, leaving only 1.2 G$ for North American sales... so it's really no wonder they don't report the sales anymore.

      Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter and I do agree with you Anna... Adam's reply is typical Amway talk. If you fail, you just didn't try hard enough. Yeah right!

    11. Hey Tobbi,

      Amway is a business like any other, they just choose to utilize a more effective marketing technique, and provide others with potential opportunity to create their own companies utilizing the Amway corporation as their supplier. That’s it, no matter how you slice it. They want more volume because that is what keeps their marketing circulating, and because it generates revenue/profit for them. Like, duh! That’s business!

      So you not buy tools for your traditional business? If you do, who profits from those purchases? You probably don’t even know their name, do you? In fact, you probably get a bum deal on those tools you purchase because you are getting marked up more than is necessary. Since when does the sale of something not generate profit for anybody involved? And on that note, why in the heck would you buy a tool of some sort if it didn’t ultimately help or benefit you in the process? Because someone told you to do it? Haha that just says you can’t make your own choices, if you want to get real honest.

      The “tool scam” you refer to is simply a separate entity making profit on providing readily available resources at a discount to business owners in the field. If you think that is wrong, that is a matter of opinion and honestly me trying to talk sense into you is a complete waste of effort.

      Amway doesn’t have salesmen. The corporation has an army of business owners that utilize Amway as their supplier. Amway is no different than Sysco or P&G when you look at them from a supplier standpoint. They simply have a private market opposed to a public one.

      It’s funny, this is typical “Amspeak” or “Amway Talk”, and yours is the dialog of an entitled victim. Both stereotypical, both true. I guess I just choose to look more at underlying truths and logic as opposed to complaints and ‘woe is me, and it’s Amway’s fault’ mentality.

      I am sure you tried very hard to reach that incentive. No one will take that away from you. But you didn’t fail at that point. Bum deals happen every single day when it comes to business. Poor decisions, life circumstances, wrongdoings, casualties, injuries, etc, etc, etc. You fail when you let all that crap get the best of you and you give up. Almost every success or motivational story you will hear, read, or witness has their trials and tribulations, and to be honest most of them outweigh most people’s average complaining entitlement mentality.


    12. Adam, if you get a huge discount by becoming an ibo, why would you buy from someone else instead of signing up yourself?

    13. Hey there Adam,

      The fact that Amway wants to make profits is a given. Businesses will be businesses after all, no arguments from me. However, Amway has the power to revoke an IBO's license if it deems it infringed on their contract. It has done so in the past on a few occasion... so this leads me to believe IBOs are more like "franchises" than "Independant Business Owners".

      Also, about the "tool scam"... in my specific case, it consisted in 1 CD a week + 1 book a month. This amounts to about 50$ a month. Now, I don't mind paying for material that will actually help me progress and learn more about business management. However, the CDs themselves are mere recording of past events and contain very little useful information. Books are okay I guess, but they were written by people who have nothing to do with Amway in the first place.

      And also, call me a victim all you want, but have you ever had your conscience rebel against you? It happened to me every time I got on the phone with a prospect. Every word I was speaking felt like poison to me. My heart was screaming "NO!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!" And in the end, I actually felt relieved when people refused to join.

      So yeah, getting ripped off made me quit... but you know what? Ever since I quit, I can look at my friends and family in the eyes again, not feeling ashamed of myself for trying to rip everyone off. And THAT is absolutely priceless!

    14. Hi Nick,

      Some people prefer to be a client, rather than have their own business entity. Most of the time these are the folks who are perfectly content with where they are at and simply want to support their friend, family member, or coworker financially.

      In my opinion, why someone wouldn’t register as at least a prosumer is way beyond my understanding. You get a 20 – 35% wholesale discount, more value, access to tax incentives/write offs (if you run your 50PV client volume), and have the opportunity to generate customers and therefore additional retail profits. You save and ultimately make money, and it only costs like less than $70/year (less than $6 a month).

      You don’t always need to contact with WWDB or other entities, you just need a sponsor.

      If I were to venture a guess as to why people choose to not contact with Amway at all, even for these benefits, is because of websites and blogs like this one. Most people aren’t very good at doing proper research. There is a negative air around network marketing as a whole on the internet because of a lot of bad experiences people have had in the past with individuals misrepresenting their company, their supplier, and their training organization. These people (victims, according to them) then accuse and blame the corporations involved, and create negative blogs and articles either looking for sympathy or because they gain some kind of satisfaction with committing defamation of multi-billion dollar companies.


      Every single website, membership, and software has this right. That is why you sign the agreement at the beginning. It is a necessary legality meant to protect the corporation from wrongdoings, and in this case to make sure that IBOs do not misrepresent the compensation plan, illegally scam people, or conduct themselves in a way that harms the integrity of the company. Amway reserves the right to take action should an IBO not take this contract seriously.

      I think it’s safe to say that $50/month isn’t much, however the value you gain from this money is completely up to you.

      The CDs are not meant to teach you new stuff... Is that what you thought? I wish your upline had advised you on this... You listen to audio CDs to glean from successfull business owners in the industry. You start to learn their manarisms, their way of connecting with an audience, and their communication skills through these audios. The CDs are also meant to provide IBOs motivation through other people’s stories and examples of success. Audios are a necessary key for individuals who do not posess healthy self-images or confidence, and help bolster the IBOs who do have these traits.

      In regard to the books... Yes, they are written by third parties, meaning the writers have no direct affiliation with your company, supplier, or training organization. This, my friend, is a good thing when you think about it. It provides a universal and unbias opinion about success principles and teachings that can relate to anyone and everyone, not just Amway or other IBOs.

      You need to be authentic to yourself, Tobbi. If what you were doing felt wrong, it probably was to you. You did what you were told, just like an employee would, instead of taking someone else’s advice and acting according to your own value system. I know for me, I simply want to add value to other people, whether it be through product, service, or the opportunity to be mentored on success, and I have done so with full ownership and great pride.

      What you are describing, in your last comment, is a low self-image. Sorry, but that is what I see. You weren’t proud of yourself, and the fact that you owned your own company. You acted according to how an employee would act, you did what you were told thinking it was going to work that way, because that is how we are brought up in today’s society. I would rather look my friends and family in the eye and have them see conviction, determination, and knowledge instead of shame.


    15. Hey there Adam,

      You are right on a few points concerning the products. Being an IBO, you do get a discount on products. However, I would advise one shops around and compares prices, because even with that 30% discount, you can end up paying more than if you'd just bought your stuff at the store... especially when you factor in the shipping.

      Also, while it's true business owners have tax benefits, there is a limit to the amount of time you can use them without turning a profit. After that, the government declares your business "a hobby" and won't give you any refund for your expenses. In Canada, I believe the limit is 5 years (don't quote me on that though).

      Also, while one has to indeed pay a 70$/year fee to keep his IBO license, this does not factor in your other expenses like the gas you use to go to a prospect's house and show the plan and do follow-ups. Nor does it factor the money you spend attending the seminars and various events that happen around the world. Sure, you can expense those... but in the end, you still operate at a net-loss until you reach the level of platinum which means your team probably has around 200-300 people in it.

      And yes, I'm being quite honest with myself by saying I refuse to make money at the expense of someone else. As for "doing what I was told", this is what my upline taught. Do what we did and you'll succeed. Do something else and you'll fail. Copy! Copy! Don't listen to anybody but us because we succeeded and as such, we're right.

      This was word for word what they hammered into our skull in the CDs, the seminars and the various events my girlfriend and I attended. To this day, I still have no idea how else I could interpret those teachings... especially since they slapped me on the hand and berated me when I tried to deviate from the mold.

      And we do agree on one thing: It's better to look at someone and see conviction instead of shame. And for me, Amway will always amount to shame because the only way to make money is to funnel it from the people who stand below you... something my conscience will never accept.

    16. Hey Tobbi,

      Even after shipping costs (which is a business expense for business owners, and therefore a write off), you gain more value from the products, considering their concentration and amount you get. If you do want to do a cost comparison, look at cost per use in relation to how many uses you get with each product and you will understand what I am saying.

      You are correct with your comment about tax benefits. 5 years is typically the time in which any business needs to turn a profit, and if profit isn't being made after expenses by that point, you are likely to get audited if you continue to claim things.

      I wasn't discussing expenses for active business builders, but your comment here is fairly obvious that your IBO membership with Amway doesn't cover the rest of your expenses, lol. Even if you make $700 /month operating a 1500 PV business, you can cover ALL of your yearly business expenses if you are building the business correctly and proportionately to what level you are at. If you want to start flying first class to seminars and functions on the other side of the country at that level, then obviously you won't turn a profit.

      Holy jeez man... 200 - 300 people is like an Emerald business (like quadruple the Platinum income)... You can go platinum at 50 people if you do it properly with the correct parameters.

      A common theme behind a lot of teachings in the business is duplication. Duplication is a key to exponential growth when it comes to network marketing and building big companies in the industry. You're correct that a lot of diamonds and leaders in the business want to encourage this so that you can achieve similar results they have. That doesn't mean you go out and be a robot and just regurgitate what you hear. You need to be authentic to who YOU are if you are actually looking to add value to others. If you just go out with a goal to try and convince people, then you are 'that guy'.

      Can you please share with me a story of your upline berating you when you didn't do what they supposedly commanded you to do, or when you 'deviated'? Your words.

      Please also clarify your last comment. The funneling thing. Are you suggesting that Amway is a pyramid scheme? Obviously that isn't the case, but I would like you to reword it so that I can better understand what you are saying.


    17. Hey Adam,

      Shipping costs can be expensed only if what you buy is not for your own personal consumption. However, no one in our upline did any form or retail sales. They bought for themselves and so did the people below them, meaning shipping costs cannot be expensed.

      As for cost per use, I did my own checking. The best example I can come up with is the SA8 laundry detergent. Last I checked, the IBO price was something like 28$ for 100 loads. I went to my local grocery store and checked for a biodegradable detergent and ended up with "La Parisienne"... 125 loads for 15.99$ and there's no shipping in this case. And so far, I haven't seen any difference in the cleanliness of my laundry.

      As for expenses, here's what our upline strongly recommended:

      Attend the functions and events so this meant one seminar and one function a month plus two congress a year.

      Costs of functions: 7$ + restaurant after to socialize (let's add about 10$ worth of food here)

      Costs of seminar: 25$ + restaurant in the middle and after (so let's make that 20$ worth of food there)

      Cost of congresses: 125$ + lodging and food (hard to tell but let's average 75$ a night for two nights and food let's say 50$)

      So all that put together brings us to:

      17 * 12 = 204$
      45 * 12 = 540$
      250 * 2 = 500$

      Next are the tools which we already discussed and average about 50$ a month so:

      50 * 12 = 600$

      So let's make a quick total:

      204 + 540 + 500 + 600 = 1844$

      So yeah, that's about 2000$ a year not factoring gas and not counting products you buy for yourself. It's still low when compared to a traditional business but also a far cry from the 70$ our upline claimed it cost.

      Also, for 50 people to make you platinum, each would need to spend about 450-500$ a month in products consistently. So yeah, it's possible, but I went with a different calculation:

      7500 PV is 75 people making 100PV per month.
      However, about 60% of IBOs are inactive so to get a steady 75 people to spend 100PV, you'll need 125 at least just to compensate for inactivity.
      so okay, maybe 300 was exaggerating, but I still stand by my 200 people. Especially since you continually have to account for people leaving.

      Next, if you want my story, it happened when I reached the end of my name list. I started searching for ways to contact other people and stumbled upon the website myleadsystempro which talked about attraction marketing and various other stuff to bring prospects to you instead of search for them. When I proudly showed this to my upline they looked at me like I was some sort of child molester. They said such website violated all of their principle of establishing relationships with people. They said if I ever joined they would cut their ties with me right this instant. So yeah, that's my story of trying to deviate from the mold.

      As for the funneling, it goes back to the beginning when I mentioned IBOs mostly buy for themselves and do very little retail sales. In fact, my upline repeatedly told us there was no money to make in retail. This essentially means Amway operates a closed-market and all of the money the top brass are collecting comes from the people at the bottom of the pyramid. Thus my "funneling" comment... and yes, I do consider Amway a pyramid that's only legal because of a legal loophole.

      It's also nice to know the top brass are making more money selling CDs and seminar tickets than they do selling Amway products. Because yes, once you reach the Gold pin level, you get a cut on the sales of tools. Which is what the whole tool scam is all about.

      I hope this helped clarify stuff

    18. Hi Tobbi,

      You are right, you can find similar products at less cost from the store. Buying power and manufacturing costs factor into this. None of those products, however, are yours, nor do they provide you with any opportunity. You can save a few bucks here and there by buying from the store, but if you own your own company and don’t shop from kind of missed the boat when it comes to business ownership. But that’s not really part of the discussion at hand I suppose. I will concede your point.

      Here was the expenses I came up with for an active business builder contracting with both Amway and WWDB... I am using myself as an example in this case.

      WWDB Member: $600 /y
      Voicemail: $420 /y
      Books: ~$400 /y (this is high 2 - 3+ books a month, though sometimes its 0)
      Tools: ~$300 /y
      Regionals: ~$150 /y
      Open Meetings: ~$240 /y (2 events a month)
      Amway: $70 /y
      Major Function tickets: ~$600.00 /y (give or take)
      Hotels: ~$1200.00 /y (this is really high)

      So probably less than $4000.00 a year in business expenses and general overhead. I guess if you want to include food, gas, and other travel expenses you can probably bump it up to $4500 - $5000.00 every year.

      Even if you just ran a 1500PV business through savings and earnings and bonuses you can make about $9600.00 every year in business income (approx. $800.00 per month).

      If you only run 100PV you don’t even get paid your bonus... Bare, bare minimum is 150PV or you technically arent even a business owner, you are just a wholesale shopper. By the sounds of it your entire upline, and you, conducted themselves fraudulently, claiming personal use as client volume. Good thing you/they never got audited.

      I just wanted to say that your upline...was god awful, if what you are saying is factual. Throughout the 3 and a half years I have been in business, never once have I heard of this kind of experience...from anybody. Maybe it’s completely different in the eastern regions of Canada, but that is attrocious behavior regardless. I mean, you probably shouldn’t have dived into other prospecting organizations, and it sounds as if both you, and your upline handled it fairly poorly. I am also assuming you are slightly dramatizing things in this example due to personal emotional bias, but even so...

      There is no SUSTAINABLE cash-flow in retail sales, but there is obviously profit. With retail, you have to start all over every single month/year, whereas Amway allows you to create an asset. You can make a ton of money quite quickly if you treat it like a sales deal, but none of it will be residual.

      All the money comes from the bottom of the pyramid... What? You honestly couldn’t be more wrong... Please, just go and read the compensation plan front to back and study it. Look at the bonus structure. It’s like the most fair thing ever compared to almost any other, traditional or non traditional plan out there.

      Regardless of the pin you need to achieve in order to own a share of WWDB and make small profits from the purchases of tools the VAST majority of top leaders’ incomes comes from their Amway bonus cheques. They don’t even really “sell” any Amway products, they simply have clients at this point that shop from them. Again, the “tool scam” is ridiculous, because WWDB isn’t a non-profit organization. If they were, they would have no employees, customer service, website, tools, functions, etc, and would constantly ask for donations rather than price things accordingly. Why would you expect those things for free?


    19. I'm on vacation, so my reply will be brief but I wanted to throw this Adam's way: If you are a business owner, not a salesperson, and Amway is only your supplier, why is their name in the top left corner of your check?

      It is because you are an employee.

      I would reply to the rest but it is like talking to a wall with a smiley face painted on it.


    20. Man I don't know what it takes to get cut in on the juice from the tools scam and event fees - maybe you have what it takes - if not I hope you don waste too much time and $$$ on a model that wont deliver (well maybe I do hope so!)

    21. Adam you missed the poin of my question. How do you make retail sales if aanyone can get whole sale prices? If it's only friends and family, isn't that more like charity?

    22. Hey there Adam,

      I will concede I exaggerated my upline's reaction a little... but they didn't like me searching for "alternative" solutions, that much is true.

      Also, considering that 1500PV you seem so fixated on, it's also important to note that depending on how your organization is set up, you might not make any money. After all, to make money, you have to be at least a bracket above your downline in the bonus department. So if you have one branch making 1500PV then too bad, you make nothing. On the opposite, if you have 15 branches making 100PV each, then good for you it's jackpot time. Of course, those are extreme possibilities and chances are your team isn't organized like that.

      As for where the money comes from... honestly, where do you think your bonus money comes from? The sale of products. If there's next to no retail sales that means all the money comes from IBOs below you who bought products for themselves. Thus a closed-market and thus a pyramid.

      As for the "tool scam" when I confronted my upline about the sales of tools, I presented them with this website:

      They confirmed that the bonus system was indeed correct and that they found it reassuring Dexter Yager decided to redistribute his profits to high-ranking Amway IBOs. It also confirms selling tools is WAY more profitable than selling Amway products.

    23. Hey Jerry,

      The name is on the cheque because Amway wrote the cheque, nothing more. They pay out wholesale > retail difference and bonus cheques to business owners that generate volume, which equals revenue for both Amway and business owner. Employees (me included) get paid by providing their body every day for an hourly wage or salary. I get paid on performance when it comes to my business.

      It’s kind of funny because you’re the wall with the frowny face .


      Second poster,

      I haven’t wasted any time on a model that won’t deliver. This one already has. Got completely debt free with cash in the bank. Even if I stopped here it would have been completely worth it.


      Nick, thanks for clarifying your question. Anyone can contract with Amway, they have no bias. Not everyone will though, and will instead choose to be serviced as a customer. Interestingly enough, the primary retail sales my wife and I generate are from supportive parents, friends, and coworkers who see the potential in what we are doing, but don’t have the self-image to actually pursue the business for themselves. They love the products and typically contact us when they run out of something because they want more and they understand that supporting us instead of a retail outlet is more beneficial for everyone in the long run.

      It isn’t charity if you actually provide customer service to people who want it from you.



      They probably didn’t want you searching for alternative means because they didn’t want you to learn things that weren’t approved by WWDB or Amway. There are actually legalities wrapped around how we as business owners conduct ourselves when we are representing these two corporations.

      You are correct. This is why you get paid based on your performance. If you run a 4300PV business lets say, but you only run 300PV personal/retail volume for yourself and you have a single leg running the other 4000 with, let’s say, healthy Eagle parameters, you would get paid approximately $189.00 and your one personally sponsored leg would get paid approximately $1548.00. These numbers are based on a quick example I drew out on a notepad. This kind of debunks the whole pyramid argument.

      Bonus money comes from a separate account Amway has that would typically otherwise be used by traditional business for advertisement purposes. Since Amway’s primary sales comes from IBOs instead of from commercial advertising, this money is paid back to business owners who are creating enough volume for Amway to warrant a bonus. Money is obviously put in this account through the sales of product. How else?

      Remember, your bonus is based on your PV in relation to your BV. When your team generates more volume and more PV, you get paid percentages based on this PV level, and then from that you pay your personally sponsored legs their bonus percentage (Amway does this automatically now). Seriously, just read the business overview and compensation explains all of this.

      I can’t comment on the website you provided in this post at this time because it would be purely speculation on my part if I did. I am not an Emerald or higher and I can’t comment on the validity of it or if the numbers are factual or not. The website is very old, however, and seems to be referring to how a lot of things used to be done, and moreso about systems apart from WWDB. Also just remember that bonuses used to be paid out by your upline manually.

      All I know is that I, personally, have absolutely no problem with people making money off these sales if they do, regardless of how much they make. I get my benefit from whatever it is that I choose to buy, and would be shocked if no one made any money off the purchases. Claiming it is a scam is, I think, a little silly, because it suggests that people are tricking you on how to make your own decisions. Guys if you gain no benefit from something, why the heck would you blindly buy it regardless? You don’t listen to the salesman about buying a barbeque when you live in an apartment with no balcony.


  4. Can someone please shut that Adam up. I'm gonna throw up with his crap!!

    1. You're going to throw up...with my crap? Lol so much rage. No wonder you're on this blog...

    2. Ambot Dick - at least Adam posts anonymously. There was an Amway commissioned salesperson here not too long ago leaving the usual Amspeak drivel. I think his name was Darnell using a profile. The Amway bosses at Alticor head office were here and all over his profile so maybe he's about to get axed for showing up at this illegal site. The bigwigs don't get no info from me. 1. I don't give a shit. 2. I ain't the Amway police. 3. In the greater scheme of things most of the world doesn't give a shit about Amway. 4. This is a safe place to complain and tell your stories.

    3. What post was all of that on?

  5. Hey, Adam, take your 'I pretend to really really care about you' bs somewhere else. We ain't buyin.'

    A traditional business does not require you to 'recruit' your employees. We actually 'pay' them every week. Real live cash that they can depend on like clockwork. When the workday is over, they go to their homes and private lives without being harrassed by, us, the bus. owners. I wouldn' dream of calling one of my employees at night and riding their asses about being out there looking for employees to recruit.

    Can you even begin to see the difference?

    If you think your extremely long tirades on this board are going to get us to change our minds about amshit, you are wasting a LOT of time. Shouldn't you be out there at some Star Bucks or Barnes & Noble asking hapless customers if they 'keep their options open?'

    How dare ambots go into stores/businesses that they have paid no insurance for, no business license for, no workman's comp for, no property taxes for, etc,, etc. and recruit. I am the one who has paid (dearly, I might add) for all of that. Get you ass off my property. Create your own retail establishment and let other mlm-bots come in and recruit - see how you feel about that!


    1. Hey...Cassette Tape?

      You don’t have to buy it, not askin’ you to, sir. My purpose also isn’t to convince any of you, but to provide an alternative outlook on things that isn’t formulated around negativity and horrible past experiences with other people.

      I don’t recruit, I qualify and sponsor people who are looking for mentorship.

      Tell me, do you feel sorry for the people you lay off when the economy goes bad? Do you actually enjoy shaking the hand of the guy who worked for you for 40 years, only to know he probably won’t be able to pay his bills in a couple of years because he has to go home to mortgage payments and is living on 1/4 of what he was being paid working for you?

      I have never once called a business partner of mine and started riding them about getting out and recruiting people...that’s silly and if that happened to you...well that sucks.

      Can I see the difference between jobs, traditional business, and network marking (non traditional business)? Yes? Lol of course...I still have a job and work my business on the side...the differences are very apparent.

      Never asked that question in my life. People tend to ask me what I do and if they can do the same thing actually...

      Man, that’s a lot of payment. I am assuming you are in debt. I am also assuming because of this that you do not even care about your employees on a personal level, and would boot them out on the street if they aren’t producing income for you, the company. Seriously man, I would venture to guess that your employees are probably numbers, nothing more, to you. You might know their name and be buddy-buddy to help motivate them, but at the end of the day you look out for you and your own family as a #1 priority, and could care less about your staff, or in reality, anyone else.


    2. And how do you qualify a prospect? I bet a lot differently than Cassette Tape or myself do when hiring staff.

    3. We take people through a 3 – 5 week interview and qualification process where we test things like accountability, coachability, and their willingness to be mentored on how they make decisions. This time also serves as an educational process for individuals and gives them the opportunity to learn and ask questions and potentially meet the people (upline) they would ultimately be working with if they earn an offer into partnership. We are very transparent with people during these weeks. The process consists of a series of meetings and board plans designed to make sure a person is able to make a fully informed decision should an offer be extended, which typically only happens with about 1 or 2 out of every 10 people. It’s amazing how unaccountable people are these days hey? I am sure you as business owners can understand.

      In a traditional business, you do things very similar actually, save for the extended period of time. You look to find qualified candidates for your open position and you recruit (hire) whoever you believe is the best fit after an interview or two, and then they choose whether or not they want to accept your job offer.

      Because we might be potentially in business partnership with the people we interview...we take this a little more seriously. This is because if someone does receive an offer we would be investing our own money, effort, and time into someone’s initial growth with little to no reward.

      We do not recruit people into business. That is how you get a bunch of people who will ultimately quit when they hit their first road pump 3 months later or come across this blog and take all the opinions from strangers as universal fact for the rest of the business.

      We only sponsor, coach and mentor people who actually have the correct mindset (or are willing to humble themselves and learn it) when it comes to being successful. Not just at this business, but with anything. Anyone can learn how to be successful contracting with Amway, but not everybody will choose to, or they are simply unwilling to do the work required.


    4. Of course Amway IBO's recruit downline or cult followers are whatever you want to call them. Its very hard to find people who want to come to an Amway meeting or listen to the bored plan. Qualifying someone just means finding anyone to show up and hopefully sign up so you can make money off them whenever they buy stuff. Yeah I've heard all the coaching and sponsoring bullshit many times. They got to call the abuse something besides abuse don't they.

      Sure people are unwilling to do the work or don't want to be in Amway. People like myself whose husband got dragged into the scam. When a wife says no, not interested, and those fucking Amway assholes still go out of their way to prospect the husband, well that's why blogs like this exist so people can come and curse out those Amway assholes who've destroyed their lives. Justify it however you want. Just look how much time you spend here defending the employer who you love so much. I bet you've never had another employer who you've spent so much time trying to defend and justify your actions. Do yourself a favor and stop wasting your time and money and find a better business opportunity where you really own your own business and aren't collecting measly commission checks. Be your own boss. Set your own hours. Set your own prices. Set up your business properly. If you have to follow someone else's rules then you don't own your own business. You're a commissioned sales rep.

    5. Qualifying someone actually means seeing if they qualify to be mentored. I have said no to people who ask me if they can do what I do many times, simply because I am not looking to sponsor people like your husband, who clearly doesn't wear the pants. Not bashing either of you, just making an observation based on what you said.

      If I didn't own my own can I prove that I do? Literally, I simply use Amway as a servicing company, because they are the best at what they do.

      Again, I don't really sell any products, people just shop from me because I provide cool stuff and hand deliver it, and I am not a complete A-Hole trying to pawn garbage on people.


    6. Addam;

      First of all, that would be Mrs. CASSETTE TAPE. I use the term CASSETTE TAPE to piss of IBOs. They go all 'postal' when I remind them that we used to get our info on CASSETTE TAPES. They think that by telling me they now use CD's I will think they are somehow different. They aren't. Amway is the same shit, different medium. I know. We built it like there was no tomorrow for almost 7 years. 6 night a week. Sponsored at least 50 families. Worked like dogs. Prospected 6 days a week - 5 numbers a day. Went to EVERY function - local and otherwise. Spent thousands on airline tickets chasing this crap. We were told to buy extra airline tickets for all the people that would be going with us. Yup. We did as our upline advised - after all - they are the bus. pros, right?

      They don't know the first thing about owning a business.

      You, Sir, are a recruiter! Trying to pass it off as 'sponsoring' is such a joke. You are signing people up and convincing them that even if amway isn't easy, it is simple, right? That's what they taught us in WWDB. All you need is 6. So SIMPLE.

      We run a legitimate business. Our people are the highest paid in this industry in this area. They get vacations every year, 401(k) accounts, health insurance, paid holidays, etc. We know them very well. We pray with them. Eat with them. Sit at the hospital with them. Yes, Adam, we are very close to our employees. You assumed otherwise. Why?

      In 30+ years of bus., we have NEVER laid off a single person. And, Einstein, everyone knows SS was never designed to 'live off.' It is a supplement only. Did you not know that?

      And for the 'debt' slam? I have zero debt. I have never filed bankruptcy. I believe in tithing and God sees to it that we have all our needs met. How's that for a business plan? I own my homes, properties, vehicles free and clear. Never took out loans. I pay CASH. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!


    7. I love this argument of they only work with 1 or 2 people out of 10 like there being selective lol the reason this happens is because the other 8 or 9 find out what a huge scam it is half way through and either run or no show ...if they can keep a sucker on the leash until the end they aren't going to say no to another $$$

    8. Anonymous - I remember reading somewhere a long time ago, I think it was something an Amway Diamond wrote that only about 15% of IBO's who sign up actually are active. By that I think he means trying to be CORE. So that falls into your 1 or 2 people out of 10. So what about the other 8 or 9 people? Some are friends or relatives of the ambot and only signed up to get the bastard off their ass and had no intention of doing anything other than buying the occasional product to help him out. The rest and probably even the above mentioned enablers figure out Amway's a scam and stop tithing the Great Amway God.

  6. Adam says "...if you own your own company and don’t shop from kind of missed the boat when it comes to business ownership."

    That's illogical. Buying from your own store isn't always a good idea - especially if your stock is overpriced or is not affordable for you.

    I do own my own store; I sell high-end clothing and accessories. I don't shop from my own store. My business exists to support me financially, not to outfit me with a designer wardrobe.

    If I have a purse that retails for $600, and my cost for it was $450, my basic options are:

    a) price it at $600, sell it to a customer - I've made $150 profit
    b) keep the designer purse for myself - I've spent $450 on a purse

    I will choose to sell to a customer every time. I started this business to support myself financially, not to provide myself with designer accessories. If I want a new purse, I will take some of the profit from my business and go to the mall where I can buy a nice leather bag on sale for about $80.

    Brands like Nutrilite and Artistry are expensive. Most IBOs start their Amway business hoping to provide an income, not to stock up on high priced vitamins and makeup. Even if you think they're worth the extra cost, if your income doesn't support that kind of spending, then you're going to end up with financial matter whose store you buy from!

    1. This is...this post is strange, lol.

      You are straight up comparing apples to oranges in this example. I am in a consumable based business, you are not. We may both provide luxury products, but people have a need for the things like soap, detergent, makeup, food, and vitamins to live and be healthy...they do not need designer brand clothing, which is very apparent according to you, lol.

      Haha if you own your own company that sells designer clothes, but you do not wear designer clothes yourself that you got from your own company, who in the heck would take you seriously and/or buy from you? I sure wouldn’t! You don’t even believe in the necessity of your own product!

      Also, when you buy something, you immediately lose money, and gain a product. You are using an example of a single sale... What about the $150 profits you made from the other 100 items of clothing and/or purses you sold that week? You’re saying that with a $15,000.00 profit you aren’t willing to support your own company and buy and use one of your own products? You...I just...what? So confused. I mean, I am really glad that your business supports you financially, really am...but I just do not understand your reasoning.

      IBOs are able to generate an immediate profit out the gate by selling products and generating retail income as well as bonus money through their PV and from additional bonuses like with the fast track incentive, for which this particular topic was originated. They also do not need to get into absurd amounts of debt to do so. In fact, they do not need to get into any debt whatsoever.

      Can I ask you...when you purchased all of your stock, did you run into financial trouble when it didn’t sell? Any debt? In this economy I can’t imagine many people are buying high-priced designer clothing on a consistent basis. Heck, even in more well off parts of the continent I regularly walk by higher end stores completely empty or just with casual browsers for hours on end.


    2. I agree with adam here. If you don't think the clothes you sell are worth the price at $450, how can you find people willing to buy it at $650?

    3. Nice try at distracting from the real point. I was answering your illogical statement about shopping from your own store. It doesn't always make sense.

      First, you are incorrect in saying people "need" Amway's high priced soap, detergent, makeup, food and vitamins to live and be healthy. That's an absurd statement. Many Amway products are priced as luxury goods, although I don't agree that their quality is as good as other similarly priced brands.

      No I don't believe in the "necessity" of the items I sell. I believe they're nice to have if you have lots of disposable income. Fortunately for me, there are many consumers who enjoy spending top dollar on clothes and accessories and have the means to do so. I'm a working businesswoman, not a socialite, and I dress nicely to fit the part. And since I started the business in 2001, plenty of people have both taken me seriously and bought from me. My business supports me and I can dress with class and style without having a designer name on the label. I have no business debt, and no personal debt beyond a mortgage. Part of the reason for that is that I'm sensible enough to know that just because I sell high-priced goods doesn't mean I have to buy them for my own use.

      And no, I did not run into financial trouble when I purchased my stock, and your "when it didn't sell" statement is an incorrect assumption. I had a realistic business plan and had done the demographic homework to be sure that the area I'm in could supply the type of shoppers I need.

      The only statement you made that I agree with is "So confused". Yes, you are.

    4. If you’re a business owner, it ALWAYS makes sense to shop for things from yourself opposed to competitors. Someone who owns a ford dealership isn’t going to come into work driving a Kia, just because they thought they got a better deal on it. Anyone in their right mind would never take a guy like that seriously.

      I didn’t say people need Amway products. Obviously that would be stupid. I said people need soap, detergent, makeup, food, and vitamins to live and be healthy, and whether they are Amway products or not is irrelevant. You don’t have to agree...the national science foundation and environmental protection agency doesn’t care about your opinion, and actually does scientific research to show that the products are of the highest quality.

      Since there is no real way for me to know other than take your word, I think I will stick to my guns. I think you are straight up lying. Not only is designer brand clothing expensive, but a lot of the time it isn’t practical. Meaning not many people will actually wear the stuff. Hell, you JUST made an argument about Amway stuff being too expensive. At least people can and need to use those kinds of consumable products!

      Also, if you are only making a $150 - $200 profit off of the...maybe 10 items a day that you are selling, you probably wouldn’t be able to afford the property tax and general overhead of your store font due to the posh area you are located in. Also, if you owned a successful business without any debt like you claim, odds are you wouldn’t be trying to defend your clearly ridiculous statements about how shopping from competitors is fine and dandy in a business world. If you were as successful as you claim, then you would have the means to shop from your own store and you wouldn’t need to go to mall and buy your clothes at Macy’s. You would support your own store by being one of your own best customers and be proud to do so. You would wear your own clothing with confidence instead of telling people about sales you found at the store across the street when they ask you what you’re wearing or compliment your jewelry. Seriously girl...come on.

      It costs nearly $5,000.00 a day just to open the doors of a small business. Just to pay for general overhead and employees. Not to mention you have to pay your supplier for the products you distribute, hoping (and I mean hoping) they sell.

      I remain very confused with these comments you are making. That is very true.


    5. Where the hell did you get that 5k a day statistic? Straight up bull shit dude.

    6. Let's see... An average small business has maybe 20 - 25 employees? I know the company I work for has this amount. Employees, power for machinery, property tax, etc. etc. etc. I was given a figure of $7,500 per day for these costs from my general manager a couple weeks ago during a staff I was kind of low-balling it. Keep in mind that doesn't even pay for product wholesale cost and all that.


  7. Adam I would really like an answer to who purchases products through an IBO. You've answered everything except for that. If you find someone who's truly wanting to buy nutrilite or something, why wouldn't they become an IBO? If they're only buying it because they're the IBO's parents, friends, or co-workers, how is that different from charity?

    1. I have answered this in the above comments, only it hasn't been approved or something yet... I will modify the response slightly with a quick addition:

      Nick, thanks for clarifying your question. Anyone can contract with Amway, they have no bias. Not everyone will though, and will instead choose to be serviced as a customer. They can, however, sign up as what is called a Pro-Sumer, which gains them access to their business license but because they don’t run any retail volume through their own clientele, and are simply shopping at wholesale, they are not a legal business. My wife and I actually have several pro-sumers in our business who run 100PV+ every month just through their own personal shopping through Amway.

      Interestingly enough, the primary retail sales my wife and I generate are from supportive parents, friends, and coworkers who see the potential in what we are doing, but don’t have the self-image to actually pursue the business for themselves. They love the products and typically contact us when they run out of something because they want more and they understand that supporting us instead of a retail outlet is more beneficial for everyone in the long run.

      It isn’t charity if you actually provide customer service to people who want it from you.


    2. "They can, however, sign up as what is called a Pro-Sumer, which gains them access to their business license but because they don’t run any retail volume through their own clientele, and are simply shopping at wholesale, they are not a legal business."

      Allow me to point this out to everyone:
      Yet they are still signed up, in the exact same way, as you, still can make commission checks, and still fill out a W2.
      So what you are telling me is that you have people, who do not follow customer regulations, signed up underneath you?


    3. No, that isn’t what I am telling you, lol. I think you read too much into what I said...

      They essentially only have a membership with Amway and wholesale shop for themselves with that contract. Kind of like a Costco membership. They have a legal business license, but it is only legitimate if they provide a product or service to customers (at least 50PV a month). That is what business is. If they actually did end up generating clientele and retail sales, yes, they are then a legal business, otherwise they simply shop at discounted prices and generate personal PV and BV toward their upline business builder’s team, but do not get paid any bonuses or ‘commissions’ from Amway.

      Seriously, you didn’t know about this?


    4. So, if they don't get a clientele, they are still signed up and registered the same, and thanks to self- consumption, can still earn commission. Right?
      So, is they just self - consume and have no clientele they are......?
      I just want you to finish your statement.

  8. Adam is avoiding questions he hasn't been trained on how to answer. I'm not even going at this kid, because all he does is run circles around the answers, provide character assassination, and claim our stories and events as fictional based solely on the fact that we are "strangers on the internet". So, I should have trusted the strangers at the meetings? The ones who stand to profit from my hard work, while I make nothing?
    Sitting there arguing your allegorical points, on a website you claim negative and unfounded is just wasting your time, and the time of your 'business'. You are not setting a good example for your 'partners'. Unless, of course, you want all of your downline to come here and rattle off nonsensical catch phrases. If they did that, maybe they'd look around at the next big conference and think "Who in here is the <1%? Who is the 99%?"

    You like to think you are different from the other commisioned sales reps, but you say and do all the same. Adam, you are the 99%.


    1. Jerry - of course he is. That's why when lowly IBO's find a recruit they have to put the prospect in front of their upline who are better at closing sales and have more experience at defend, deny, lie, and distract. Adam needs to look at the sales material produced by Amway at the expected revenue. The little print. Where it says something like .000367% will earn money. You'd think he could find a better business opportunity with better chances than a 99% failure rate. All the time he spends here defending his boss could be better spent recruiting and making sales. I guess he can't find anyone so he puts in his 10 to 15 hours a week here instead. Sad really.

    2. I will admit, he hints at the idea that maybe, just maybe, he has his head screwed on right and has his moral compass and/or business compass in the appropriate direction. Then he jumps back into the parroting what he has been told to say.

      Adam, everything you have said, we have heard countless times. From your first comment, to your most recent, the only real difference is that your comments are grammatically sound, spelling is on point, and you didn't end it with a pile of exclamation points, 'LOL's, or emoticons. You did pile on the smug condescension we have come to expect from un-pinned Ambots.
      If you put half of this effort into a legitimate business plan, not a commissioned sales representative plan, and legitimate training, you might actually be a true millionaire. Instead you have decided to spin your tires, and come to the negative side of this business to defend spinning your tires. I don't go over to pro-Amway-land and defend my points there. All you did here was stir up the sharks and make you look like a social pariah, and in turn hurting your chances of coercing new 'qualifiers'. .
      When people research this 'opportunity' on their own, outside of the bias material they are handed, they will inevitably end up on google. So, instead of increasing the hits this page gets, why don't you find a nice, shiny, happy, delusional, pro-mlm blog and increase their hits.

      You are shooting yourself, your 'business', and your overseeing company, right in the foot.


    3. Each of these posts takes me about 15ish minutes to write.
      I have already mentioned I have made a lot of money contracting with Amway and live debt free now because of it. If that's failure then...well hey I am glad to be on that boat. Do you consider yourself successful in your business Anna? How much debt do you have? Everything paid off or financed? Mortgage? I don't know about you but to me, status does not equal success.

      Ultimately I know this is all just a waste of my time, because the people here have all been conditioned (brainwashed, if you will) to think negatively about this, and perhaps most other things as well. I guess my only real hope is that some people who stumble on this blog don't sabotage themselves by seeking out negative and rage-filled opinions, and instead make an informed decision based on the facts.

    4. This is a place for people to share their BAD experience about Amway, so yeah anger and frustration are meant to be an integral part of the comments and stories that are posted.

      It's very important to note that those are also part of the Amway reality. People get hurt in Amway THAT is a fact... and that is the reason this whole blog exists: so that people can vent their frustration at being hurt by Amway.

    5. I know I said I'd leave him alone, but this is too good to pass up.

      So, between this site and Joe Cool's you've spent roughly 3-4 hours? In two days? I can remember hearing at an Amway meeting, any time you are not working on your business, you are losing money. It would seem you are not following the system, and according to every single Amway commissioned sales rep I have ever met or have spoken up on this blog, the only way to succeed is to follow the system. This is survivorship bias, but, shouldn't you be spending this time listen to an audio? Or Reading your book? Ordering more XS?

      You have come here, seeking out negativity, imagining that you are some great hero, who will put down reason in the comments section, to counter these devils. In turn, you have been so negative to any idea other than your own. I tell you I have no problem with Fast Track, or your parent company, and you tear my ideas to shreds because my cons for this business were quite strong. You don't see any negative aspects to this business because you have put the Amway blinders on. You have sabotaged yourself, by shutting off your critical thinking.

      What 'facts' have you provided? You haven't mentioned retiring from your day job, so that day job must be important to keeping you afloat, financially. You haven't proven that you are truly debt-free, you haven't mentioned a pin level, and tout the motivational material, therefore studies and facts would tell those of us, with our critical thinking in tact and the will-power to look at the dirty side of this all, that you are delusional about your income. Fact check it yourself. Look at the Wisconsin and Great Britain Amway cases. These numbers touted by these blogs didn't just materialize in someone's imagination. They came from authority figures. Making an informed decision means finding all aspects of the business, both good and bad. We see a man who probably makes a respectable living at his day job, and wastes a great deal of time and money trying to make Amway work. Do the math yourself. Could you have made more money working a second job at minimum wage and investing that money? Remember, if you and your wife both work on this business, you need to count her time as well.

      Why do you keep asking if people, on here, are in debt? Is it because you have been trained that anyone with a mortgage, car payment, et cetera, are losing at life and will be broke at 65? Is it because you have been trained that they will likely lose their jobs and have no money to pay these bills? This is a scare tactic, used by all AMO's to convince you that there is no future for you or your family without Amway. More smoke and mirrors, Adam.

      And before you ask me too, I do own my own business. I am debt free. College loans are paid, cars I bought new, are paid, house paid. This is equity. Equity allows you to buy better.

      Tell me now, Adam, are you truly debt free? Do you own any equity? Do you have a credit card balance? Are your college loans paid off? Is your car older or newer? Do you live in a nice part of town? Do you rent? How many vacations have you taken in the last year (and traveling to a city for a conference is not a vacation)? Do you use tax write offs for everything you can think of? Do you rely on that income tax return? Do you claim tax write off, for your Amway fun, against your income from your job?


    6. This one took a bit longer to write... Wall of text incoming in order to address your post and questions Jerry... I will post it in two posts, so hopefully that’s okay. :S

      I do whatever I want. There have been crowns in Amway that didn’t follow “the system”. In fact, there are only systems designed in organizations like WWDB, whose sole purpose is to help new business owners learn an entrepreneurial mindset... Guess, what, it takes fanaticism to become successful AT ANYTHING. I seek perspective on business and life from my coach/mentor when I want it, which is quite often. I have never been given any without first asking for it.

      It’s kind of funny actually...I do listen to audios while I type these posts :P. I also utilize break time at my job to do things like read, drink XS, and post on this blog because I find it enjoyable to know and confirm that there are, what, MAYBE 5 – 8 people out there on the internet who post on these things fairly consistently? Yet people will accept what they say as truth, lol.

      You are right, it is a very negative blog and people come here to look for negative opinions and listen to people complaining. It’s kind of sad when you think about it really... Why waste your time being constantly negative and passing that negativity onto others? Why wouldn’t you be positive instead? And by that I don’t mean you need to be positive about Amway or WWDB, but just in general.

      I was the guy who, when I first started learning about the companies, came to this exact blog. I listened to you. Yes, you Jerry. And I nearly quit in my first month of business because I accepted what you were saying. Today, if I had quit, I wouldn’t be debt free, and I would be playing video games maybe 12 – 14 hours a day on my computer, neglecting my girlfiend (now wife) because I would not have had any guidance or purpose. In fact, I am fairly certain that my wife would have left me due to her constant negative association at the time, plus my unwillingness to get married.

      In this business, I get to spend time with my wife. We build it together and get to spend a lot of quality time as a couple. If I were to have instead found a second job, I would never see her. Pulling in an extra $700 - $1000 every month with an Amway business is just fine by me for now. We are only a 1500PV business building at our own pace. I work in sales and my wife works as an OT. We do well for ourselves in our respective professions. In fact, because of this business and how we have grown ourselves on a personal level as well as our communication and people skills, we are even better at what we do now in our jobs.

      Why don’t we just agree now that, due to this being an anonymous blog, that we cannot determine the validity of either of us claiming to be debt free. I mean, I am, so I’ll go ahead and accept that you are too, even though the statistics I read say otherwise.

    7. I have been trained common sense. Even before I was involved in business I determined that debt was just a symbol of status/greed, or a strategic, yet risky business tactic. The only debt I had was my college loans, and those got paid off about 4 years after I graduated. I would have been 15 years without any guidance. I believe that people won’t be able to pay their bills when they retire at age 67 – 70 because there are examples of it happening literally everywhere where people hadn’t developed an asset for themselves during their years. In my family, specifically, it has already happened several times.

      Got this information:

      “A high debt/equity ratio generally means that a company has been aggressive in financing its growth with debt. This can result in volatile earnings as a result of the additional interest expense.

      If a lot of debt is used to finance increased operations (high debt to equity), the company could potentially generate more earnings than it would have without this outside financing. If this were to increase earnings by a greater amount than the debt cost (interest), then the shareholders benefit as more earnings are being spread among the same amount of shareholders. However, the cost of this debt financing may outweigh the return that the company generates on the debt through investment and business activities and become too much for the company to handle. This can lead to bankruptcy, which would leave shareholders with nothing.”

      Does this information apply to you?

      Based on the info you gave, I would assume your company is public, or you are a long-time business owner, and you aggressively expanded your business to the point where you could earn enough profits to pay off all of your debt. If this is indeed the case, I am very impressed. With that said, I am somewhat confused why someone so successful would spend their vacation time posting negative stuff about a company that doesn’t affect them in the slightest, and apparently hasn’t in the past either because they were able to build a different company to this kind of level.

      This is quite the list of questions, but here goes. Yes, I am debt free. Don’t owe anything to anyone. My credit is and will remain perfect. University loans and fees completely paid for and so is my wife’s Masters degree in OT. Car is 2008. Live downtown. I choose to rent. Haven’t gone on vacation for about 4 years as I have no real need or desire to vacate. I utilize tax benefits only for which my accountant recommends. The tax return is just a nice thing t have show up, we do not rely on it. The last question I am not sure about, as I just have my accountant sort all that stuff out. To be perfectly honest I don’t understand how it works that well, I just get cheques in the mail.

      Man it would be cool if there was some kind of official debate about this stuff :P. Would be fun to watch.


    8. Adam,
      For once, in all my time commenting on this blog, I will finally give an Ambot credit. You are the most well-versed Ambot I have seen comment here, and, honestly, have been waiting for you for some time. Yes, you, the well-versed Amway commissioned sales rep. You still show hints of typical Ambot attitude, as well as trying to move the conversation in your direction.

      You are the Moriarty to my Holmes, or vice versa if you prefer. Perhaps you are that 1% success story, but it doesn't change the fact that the others around you will not be as lucky. Smiling to them, shaking their hands, encouraging them is simply making yourself the Judas Goat.
      I spent my vacation, and have returned. I look ay my posting on this website as a service to my community. I have watched more than just my ex walk down the line of Amway, or Herbalife, or any other assorted MLM out there, spamming the world with the same useless 'positivity only' 'our MLM is better than any other!' I have been prospected to join 8 different MLMs from former college friends and acquaintances. You all sound alike, aside from you.
      As I said, you could be far more successful in a real/traditional business and you wouldn't have to spend your days on a blog defending the reputation of the work you are doing. Have some backbone and start a real career. Look around you at your next conference, you are surrounded by 20-something's who wouldn't know sound strategy from a box of Crayola crayons, full of life, ambition, and ENTITLEMENT.
      No, my business isn't public. I've been in business 10 years, in a specialized field, with a select clientele. I don't live in a ridiculous mansion, or anything your diamonds portray. I'm simply happy, debt-free, and MLM free.

      Your debt/equity ordeal is nice, and it describes how the US runs it's economy.

      Yeah, this blog is the "con" or negative side of this 'opportunity'. When researching any possible business opportunity, one should consider what the company has to say about itself, or what does it tout? What do it's supporters tout? What do it's rivals say? What do its critics say?
      I saw it like this:
      Amway touts sales numbers:
      -the 11.whatever you said before.
      -and also, you likely won't make any money, and if you do it won't be much more than $2k
      Supporters tout:
      -More millionaires than Microsoft. (Microsoft has had less time and far fewer employees, percentage goes to Microsoft)
      -that BBB stuff
      -personal development
      Rivals tout: Amway is the same tired routine it has always been. (Secretly ask a member of another MLM what they think of it, or what they have been told of it)
      -Critics tout: well, all I have been saying, all Anna has been sayin, Joe Cool, Cassette tape, Like a Mom, David (who I hoped would show up) Ambot Dick, Tobbi, scamfighter, exherbot, and on and on.
      The thing I couldn't find on the internet, was an actual supporter of Amway specifically, who wasn't involved in the system itself, and who wouldn't potentially profit from someone joining. I make no money if someone takes my advice.

      Basically, what I am saying is two things Adam:
      1. In this information age, ignorance is a choice.
      2. Look back at day 1 in this adventure. Were you shooting for diamond? Or shooting for a simple stability? This is the problem. Telling every IBO they are going to be millionaires when, likely, at best they might be able to pay a bill or two.

      An official debate wouldn't be cute and fun like this, it will likely be the next court case when it rolls around, and we won't be there.

      What pin level are you Adam?


    9. Hey Jerry,

      Thanks for your...kind words? Lol I am not entirely sure if they were kind or not because you mixed the two into the same sentences...

      I am just a lowly 1500PV business right now. I think I mentioned it in my last post. I am pretty much nothing compared to some of the other leaders in my line of sponsorship. My business nets me about $800 - $1000 every month. What is interesting about your ‘sales rep’ comment is that...I don’t really sell much of anything, lol. I simply refer people to my site via word of mouth and people shop from me... I have no real interest in being ‘that guy’ going door to door selling stuff people might not necessarily want. Like you said, this is the information age. I have no time for stuff like that when I have things like the internet.

      I think it is better to encourage and uplift people then to tell them they are wrong and stupid for making the decisions they have. That they have been brainwashed to think that they can succeed when in reality they are just going to fail like everyone else... I know you guys here take some sort of pride in that...lord only knows why. Look, I know that not everyone will succeed at this deal, nor will the majority succeed at their career, profession, traditional small business, etc., but why is it that you feel discouragement and constant negativity is a good thing? Just doesn’t make any sense to me. People involved with MLM businesses are positive because MLMs are people businesses by nature. Who in their right mind would want to be involved in partnership with some constantly negative grouch? No one!

      Do you think I woke up one day and POOF I had this mindset? Not at all. It took 2.5 years of constant personal growth, success books, audio, association, getting around success... I would have NEVER started my own business 3 years ago. Not ever. My backbone, back then, was invisible. Today, I understand that it isn’t about how much money you make, it’s about how much time you make. Success isn’t determined by your things, but by the level of impact you have on the world and the people around you. You are extremely limited in this regard in any traditional business sadly. When you go, are you going to regret not helping more people? Are you going to regret not giving more and not creating more relationships and not being someone who made other people’s lives better simply by you being here? You can’t take your things with you.

    10. This site, to me, isn’t research. If I were to cite this blog on a research paper I would get an immediate big fat red F. I understand you have to look at the pros and cons of any decision you make, but taking the advice and opinions of un-credible resources is ridiculous.

      If you need help looking for Amway specific credibility, try Kurt Warner, Sandra Bullock, Miss America, Detroit Redwings. You can also look to people like Robert Kiyosaki, Donald Trump, and Warren Buffet. All of these significant businessmen endorse network marketing as an excellent opportunity for young people to start business ventures. And let’s be honest...Amway is the biggest network marketing company out there, and they are the benchmark for all the rest because they have been brought through trial the most and have been deemed legitimate.

      Diamond was simply a dream building exercise for me. Personally I have a hard time imagining myself as a millionaire, even to this day. My personal goal was simply to have a choice of whether or not I needed to work. I wanted to bring my wife home with a side income that could replace her job. I don’t want some extravagant, amazing, jet-filled life. I want a life full of choice, to not be under the thumb of another man telling me what to do and how to act and how to dress and when I can go to the bathroom... I am not interested in recruitment or bossing people around. I am an advocate for the Free Enterprise system and I want to empower and uplift other potential leaders and make an impact. You can’t do that in a job or in a traditional business unfortunately.

      Amway is too big and too awesome for court cases anymore, it would simply be a waste of time.


    11. This site, to me, isn’t research. If I were to cite this blog on a research paper I would get an immediate big fat red F. I understand you have to look at the pros and cons of any decision you make, but taking the advice and opinions of un-credible resources is ridiculous.

      If you need help looking for Amway specific credibility, try Kurt Warner, Sandra Bullock, Miss America, Detroit Redwings. You can also look to people like Robert Kiyosaki, Donald Trump, and Warren Buffet. All of these significant businessmen endorse network marketing as an excellent opportunity for young people to start business ventures. And let’s be honest...Amway is the biggest network marketing company out there, and they are the benchmark for all the rest because they have been brought through trial the most and have been deemed legitimate.

      Diamond was simply a dream building exercise for me. Personally I have a hard time imagining myself as a millionaire, even to this day. My personal goal was simply to have a choice of whether or not I needed to work. I wanted to bring my wife home with a side income that could replace her job. I don’t want some extravagant, amazing, jet-filled life. I want a life full of choice, to not be under the thumb of another man telling me what to do and how to act and how to dress and when I can go to the bathroom... I am not interested in recruitment or bossing people around. I am an advocate for the Free Enterprise system and I want to empower and uplift other potential leaders and make an impact. You can’t do that in a job or in a traditional business unfortunately.

      Amway is too big and too awesome for court cases anymore, it would simply be a waste of time.


    12. Adam - I wish there were sites like this when we were getting involved in Amway. And this is research. There are hundreds of comments on this site about people who lost money and were abused by the assholes in their upline. Amway has left too many people with financial and emotional distress.

      People in Amway are brainwashed to believe the lies told by their cult leaders and to dismiss everyone else who are quitters or didn't try hard enough or whatever blame the victim scam bullshit they come up with. That's why Amway ambots only want prospects to do their research on sites that they approve, not come to other sites like this where we tell what happened to us and how much money we lost and the destroyed relationships. By sharing our losses and experience it helps with the healing and hopefully we can help others not make the same mistakes and get involved in this scam.

      And you don't think that's research?

      As for the Amway credibility sources you mentioned - aren't they all paid spokespeople? That has been discussed numerous times here and on other blogs. People get paid to appear in advertisements. Do you really think they're yapping about Amway out of the goodness of their hearts? Well I suppose that's what Amway wants to brainwash you to believe. They are PAID. And they are better paid than the measly commission most IBO's make. Can you imagine asking Miss America to promote makeup for $10/month?

      Don't you have an Amway meeting you need to run off to?

    13. Hmm why is it that I make a logical comment and I get cursing and immaturity in return? I guess it’s to be expected...

      People come to sites and blogs like this one looking for an excuse to not do something. I know from experience because it is exactly what I did. This exact site. Because my wife REALLY wanted to get involved, we earned the offer but I told her “We are giving this ONE month and if we don’t make money, we are going to back out! I don’t want to get scammed!”. It was such a childlike mentality.

      Guess what happened? We made money in our first month in business, and I started to develop a relationship with someone who had career and business success. Upline from her was a prosecuting lawyer and his wife was an detective and they had built an emeraldship. This man’s JOB was to prosecute things like fraud and unlawful gains! What did he know that people here do not?

      Once again, all Amway did was offer an opportunity for people to contract with them as a supplier. Maybe back in your day someone, or multiple people looking for a quick buck abused and/or took advantage of other people, but at the end of the day Amway is simply a servicing corporation. Amway has not left people in financial trouble, they did it to themselves by making poor choices, or they were taken by some greedy schmuck who chose to lie and to misrepresent himself and his company.

      You keep bringing up the word brainwash. Let’s take a sec to understand that statement... If you go to church, are you brainwashed? If you wake up and go to work, are you brainwashed? If you went to school, were you brainwashed to go? No? Why not? Wasn’t the school system developed during the industrial revolution to train employees to work for large companies? By your definition, the government brainwashed everyone into thinking this was the only way to go! What is funny is that the people who truly become successful in life are the ones that break this mold and actually do something for themselves instead of working for somebody else.

      Blame the victim? Let’s be honest...they have a good point! If you want to accomplish something, ANYTHING, is the answer to give it 25% effort for 3 months, quit, then blame the system for not working. Do you see an obese person wearing a T-Shirt to your gym, go in the next day and quit the gym because CLEARLY it doesn’t work. Like everyone posting here is intelligent...lets have some common sense people...

      No, actually they aren’t all paid spokespeople. Kiyosaki, Trump, and Buffet are all very prominent businessmen who have developed fortunes for themselves and they all endorse network marketing companies like this. Kiyosaki (Rich dad, Poor dad) literally wrote a book specifically as to why network marketing is a great opportunity...

      Sweet lord Anna, I am starting to think you are the one brainwashing yourself and just choosing to stay completely negative and ignorant. Either that, or you are getting paid or something to continuously try and defame positive thinking when it comes to this company. Why is it that you resort to ridiculous passive-aggressive insults like that last comment? I know this is your deal, but can you please post logical arguments instead of rage-filled, emotional nonsense?


    14. It's interesting to note that Donald Trump has pulled the plug on his network marketing venture in 2012:

      Also, here's a nice story about Kiyosaki's symbiotic relationship with MLM:

    15. Adam - readers come here to be entertained and swearing at people in Amway is why readers keep coming back. If swearing offends you and you think this blog is childish, why keep coming back?

    16. Swearing doesn’t offend me in the slightest. Lord knows I’m far from perfect. I just think it’s ridiculous when you are trying to make outrageous points and insulting people while at the same time trying to sound intelligent. Because’s the opposite. You sound immature and the people reading your posts are just going to think you’re a child and not take you seriously. If your goal/purpose is to dissuade people from contracting with Amway then you at least have to sound like you know what you’re talking about instead of just cursing and throwing a tantrum, trying to dodge and distract from the logic and common sense of what I am saying with immature insults and constant cursing.


  9. Good gravy, Adam, but you are a pompous little shit. A whole 2.5 years to develop? Wow. You must be all of like, what, 26 now? Crapola, you know EVERYTHING! Bring that attitude to my office and look for a job, and we'll kick you whiney little girly-man ass out the door. Yeah, we can do that since we own it.

    You simply can't stand the idea that many people are doing just fine outside of amway. All that crap they told you (and us) that everyone is in desparate debt and will be dead or broke by age 65 is not panning out, is it?

    We just aren't fitting into the cassette tape you just listened too. You know, the one you paid, what, $7 for this week? Your speach is so canned it could be used to subdue ragheads in Iran. They would surrender just to get you to stop talking.

    Your friend,


    (and, yes, we are your real friends b/c we'll tell you what you need to hear and we don't charge for it)

    1. I love how you call me pompous then you continue on with this childish post. Why resort to insults? Seriously man, grow up.

      Not once have I whined on this blog... Why would I? I know none of the people posting on here are going to change their minds. I spent those 2 and a half years developing in a positive way instead of staying in my rage bubble and being a complete dbag to other people.

      I know people are fine without contracting with Amway...OBVIOUSLY. Amway isn’t the be-all-end-all of the universe man. I do know none of my family beside my wife and I are doing well...nor the majority of my friends’ families, and the ones who are doing well financially live in constant relational turmoil, probably because they literally don’t see one another save for maybe 1 evening a week. I just have to look at the numbers. It’s probably pretty darn close to 95%...

      More and more I am seeing people still working at age 70. My boss for example...the guy is 80 and he still comes into work. He has built this company from the ground for the last 50+ years and it is all he knows. Some days, he comes into work and just sits...for 8 a quiet office and does the odd chore. The place costs his daughter (the owner) hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep running.

      Again with direct insults. This is something children do man. That...and your comment made NO sense at all in context of what we are talking about, lol.

      BRO that $7 put me into bankruptcy this week man...whoah boy I am HURTING financially cus of that ding. I hope I didn’t get scammed out of that $25 a month cus I need that money to feed my family... /sarcasm

      Haha I love that you are still in cassette tape world. Welcome to the 90s? There are MP3s now man...just saying.


      (you don’t charge for your opinions just like everyone else on earth, congrats)

    2. CT- you gotta wonder what will happen to Adam the next time he counsels with upline and in his confessional he says hes chatting online with quitters, loses, and unsupportive unchristian dreamstealing ambot wives. He'll get a shit kicking for sure!

    3. Wow...I didn’t expect you to admit that stuff...

      I did counsel with my upline about being on this blog. They encouraged me to not waste my time, but could do whatever I wanted...that’s it. They, WWDB, and Amway can’t do anything about this blog so it is what it is, and to be honest I kind of like the fact that it weeds out people who I, quite honestly, don’t want to work with anyway.


    4. Adam, you are starting to lose your cool. Your style of writing has changed. 'Rage' much? And now you don'tt want to work with us. Smoke and mirrors, my friend. What, you don't take counsel from your upline? Dave Severn says hold a mirror under their nose, and if it fogs up, 'SHOW 'EM THE PLAN! Yeah, he would yell it over and over.

      All your crap about 3 week interviews is such shit.

      Are we supposed to impressed b/c you are debt free and you've never even bought a house? You want us to take you seriously? You haven't lived long enough to exprerience anything yet.

      The difference between us and you is that we never thought we were too good to get our hands dirty doing whatever it took to make a living - and then actually make that living. No college degrees here, son. Just a willingness to work hard and save like crazy. I've always worked at the very least a full-time job and then 1 and sometimes 2 part time jobs on top of it. Yes, we are the working generation. Sometimes I would get in my car and I seriously couldn't remember which job I was going to. So the constant slams from ambots about us being too lazy to do the work are such a joke.

      Amway teaches their ambots to be insulting to anyone who won't do amway. Why? So then it's much harder for you to get out once you wake up and realize what a sham it is. You will chase your tail for nothing.

      BTW, having people go out and hand-deliver products is like, what, the carpetbaggers of the 1800's? So modern, don't you think? Did you know we werre still doing product pick-up by hand and in person even in the early 2000's? WWDB wouldn't let us use the inernet. So your little jab about CASSETTE TAPES was missed.

      And using words like 'haters' and 'rage' is a dead giveaway for your age. Those words are so worn out. Telling it like it is is not 'rage' nor is it 'hate.' When did the truth get confusing? It got confusting when political correctness reared its ugly head.

      I was raised in a Rambo world and I'm damned proud of it. I know right from wrong and hold very firmly to those principles.

      You tell us to spend our time doing something other than writing on the internet about amway - well, back at cha', little man. Find something constructive to do other than amway. You can do it. Ambots started this little war, so to speak, by constantly slamming those who won't do amway or who quit. Well, we finally got sick of it and we are fighting back. Kinda sucks, don't it? We are not spineless.


    5. I had a good chuckle at this one, seeing how you completely BS’d your way through it and came up with blatant and obvious lies and speculation (that has nothing to do with anything aside from insulting me) to try and prove your points. This, to me, is more childish than anything I have said or done so far. You become an adult when you stop doing childish things, sir.

      Dave Severn has been building his business for the better part of 40 years...we do things a little differently these days man. He was able to make an extremely profitable asset for his family and I respect that man like crazy, but everyone needs to do this thing their own way, find their own niche, all the while gleaning and learning from other success stories.

      Can you clarify on my “crap about 3 week interviews” and how it is “such shit”? I want to know what your opinion is on this, and if you could explain to me how it is bad. Oh, and we qualify people over a 3 – 6 week process. We don’t hype up and sign up, we look for business partners.

      I could qualify for more credit on a mortgage than most...I just simply choose not to because I don’t want to be tied down, nor deal with the stress involved with maintenance, upkeep, property taxes, etc. Mortgages these days and in this economy are also considered liabilities more so than assets. You can ask any successful businessman (yes, even those who aren’t involved with Amway) and they will verify this. Maybe 30 – 40 years ago buying a house was your best option to build equity and have an asset down the road...these days not so much. I guess it is all wrapped up in whatever your core values of mine is to be debt free. I am not trying to impress anybody.

      I don’t think I’m too good to get my hands dirty...and trust me there are A LOT of other differences between you and I. People can and do make a living contracting with Amway and that is what I chose to pursue. Nothing wrong with that.

      There is a difference between being lazy, and being UNWILLING to do the kind of work it takes to build a successful network marketing business. I never said anyone here was lazy (do a word search if you don’t believe me). I think the rest of your comment about your constant working at a job is quite sad really. How did that affect your relationship/marriage?

      Amway, ONCE AGAIN, doesn’t teach anything. They are a servicing corporation whose purpose is to provide products to business owners that use and market them. They also handle all the legal stuff. That’s it, that’s all, and they are fantastic at what they do.

      You might be referring to a training system perhaps, and my only response to that then is that I have never once, ever, heard anyone teach to be disrespectful and/or insulting to people who choose not to be sponsored. In fact, I have experienced the exact opposite, and that you should treat everyone with courtesy, respect, and decency regardless of their choices in life. I learned a while back that I have no control over others, therefore have no right to insult them if I don’t necessarily agree with or understand their decision making.

      WWDB is solely based on the internet now. There is no product pickup. Lol I know you said you were a tad older but uh...there is technology now. At those product pickups in the early 2000’s were you still listening to tapes instead of CDs and/or MP3s? If so then uh...yeah I don’t know. That was before my time.

      You are the first person on here to use the word “hater”, and it was in this post, haha. Telling it like it is is fine and dandy, but if you mix in a ton of exclamation points and swearing...that typically says someone is angry (or just immature), thus my comments about some individuals being full of rage.

      I would encourage you to open your mind a little to change. Things change and what you may have experienced a billion years ago isn’t necessarily how things are today. Your past is clouding your judgement and you are looking at everything wrapped around this topic through a lens of hatred and ignorance.


    6. Adam, you are simply too much fun! I want so much to leave you to your little amway world, but, dang, you just can't leave it alone, can you?

      You are not 'interviewing' anyone since you are not 'hiring' anyone. Only employers can hire. And, yes, I call BS on the so-called inerview crap. Anyone can call amway corp. and get sponsored. Trust me, most ambots are so desparate to recruit, they don't care what your background is.

      Working the long hours we did and still do has been great. Our family is doing wonderful. Married 37 years. What's your track record? My reference to being willing to work is made b/c we are sick of being called lazy losers. We are not lazy nor are we losers. Then you switched to calling it an 'unwillingness' to work. We are not 'unwilling' to work. We are unwilling to go out and continue the con by asking people if they keep their options open. What dumb question. No matter how they answer, you get to feel superior, right? Greg Duncan used to say if they don't get in they are 'winners' in his book (while holding his thumb and pointer finger in the shape of an L on his forehead. So respectful, don't you think.

      And now it's called 'contracting' amway? Is that supposed to lend it credibility? It doesn't. It's just the new buzz word.

      Many big wigs stood on stage and mocked the WWII generation as being stupid for working 40 hrs/wk for 40 yrs. I dare anyone of them to say that to their faces. Freaking cowards. I would remind them of the U.S.S. Arizona. Now, those were heros. And, Adam, do you even know how many former diamonds are now bankrupt? No? Look it up.

      There was technology in the early 2000's, too, but Ron Puryear wouldn't let us use it. No fault of our own. We counseled upline.

      Yes, Grasshopper, things change. And they will change again in a few years. I'm not at all unwilling to get with the times. I'm just poking fun at the ambots who try tell us everything is new, now. Nothing is new in amway. The medium (tools biz, which, btw, is how the bulk of money is made) maybe, but not the message. It's the same rags-to-riches bs we heard years ago.

      Compare the # of diamonds being created today compared to 10-15 years ago.

      The very first meeting we attended was nothing but overcoming objections. If amway didn't have such a poor reputation, they wouldn't have to spend entire major functions telling you how to overcome them. People would be knocking you down to get in your biz. There is no business teaching at any function. It's nothing more than a rah-rah session designed to make ambots feels superior. They teach nothing more than C.O.R.E. We were hard-core the entire time we worked it. It was a tragic waste of time.

      Good luck to you, Adam. No one one here is mad at you. You are just one of many who come on here occasionally and test the waters. BTW, you want to impress us, really? Schedule C. We will receive nothing less as proof of your success. It's the very least you can do.

      Good day to you. No one on here has even gotten angry yet. It's not pretty when it happens.


    7. Do you just like...not read? Lol I said that we interview people to see if they qualify to be mentored. I even stated quite clearly in an earlier comment that anyone can log on right now and sign up with the Amway corporation if they wanted to. Please look up the definition of ‘interview’. I did not say job interview. I’m not desperate at all. I am picky, which is why I have many meetings throughout several weeks with people before offering them the opportunity.

      Congrats on your longer track record! You must be in your late 50s then? Jeez it’s no wonder... Set in your ways! Again, you took what I said and tried to manipulate it so you could make a case...I didn’t say unwilling to work. I said unwilling to do the work required to build a network marketing business. Never have I said anyone here was lazy.

      I have a hard time referring to you as Cassette Tape so I will just say...CT...that okay? CT, did you make an emotional based decision or a logical one when you heard people involved with Amway say those things? Was it disrespectful? Maybe. Should you choose to put everyone else in the same boat because of one person saying something he probably shouldn’t have? You can answer for yourself I suppose.

      It’s calling contracting with Amway because...that’s uh...that’s what you do? I don’t understand what you’re saying with that...

      Leaders in this organization have nothing but respect for people who worked their entire life... They just feel sad for them because they don’t really have a lot to show for it most of the time, and the people who do don’t really live all that great a life.

      I don’t actually know how many diamonds went bankrupt, nor care very much in all honesty. It was their own decisions that got them there and if anything people can learn from their mistakes.

      Ron Puryear can’t let or make anyone do anything. I mean, if you defame WWDB and/or Amway he has the power as the founder and leader of the organization to revoke your membership, but that’s about it. He was likely clinging to things he knew to work back then. Times are much, much different now and that’s probably why Amway’s revenue is continuing to grow huge amounts instead of dropping.

      When was the last time you were at a meeting? Or a major function? Just curious how you know so much about how things aren’t any different than 20 years ago. Do you still go to functions and stuff? That would be funny.

      They teach a LOT more than CORE. The interesting thing, though, is that a lot of concepts tend to come back to CORE, because all it is is growing yourself on a personal level, which is what it takes to be successful in anything you choose to focus on. It is universal success principles that are taught at functions, and only tailored slightly in order to be able to implement them within this business model.

      People misrepresent this company every day. This is why it has the reputation it has and why people cling to the negative. Either they are scared that it is a scam, so they have no interest, or they are scared that what they have thought about the company up until this time based on nothing more than word of mouth, is false.

      Can you clarify what Schedule C means to you, so that I might be able to respond accordingly?


  10. Amway is too big for court systems? I don't think "Awesome" is a legal term.

  11. "If you need help looking for Amway specific credibility, try Kurt Warner, Sandra Bullock, Miss America, Detroit Redwings."
    So in order to acquire credibility, all I need to do is pay endorsements?

    I take back all the nice things I have said about you. Your condescension, your lack of credible data, 3 years and you aren't even closing in on a pin (they told me 3-6 months?), your inability to understand that being a good freind/ family member/ significant other means telling people they are making a mistake. They are fucking up. You shouldn't support financial suicide. I don't. That's why I'm here. You don't realize how pathetic it is that you and your wife have spent 3 years grinding away to make less than minimum wage in the third year.
    I'm done with you Adam. You have lied. You told me you would have quit if you had listened to me specifically when you read this blog at the beginning of your recruitment. That was 2.5 years ago. I've been commenting for 7 months.
    Your recent name dropping, false accreditation, spin doctor tactics, dog and pony show one-liners, name calling, and smug, lead me to believe only one thing:

    You are just another putrid IBO, dumping hour after hour into your up line's pockets while you make a small Judas Goat salary. One which keeps you hooked in, and feeds your down line to the up line.


    1. Given that he claimed several times to be making 800-1000$ a month, that would amount to 9600 ~ 12000$ a year. However, once you take out his expenses of 5000$ a year then he's left with... something like 4600$ ~ 7000$ a year. Also, let's not forget our friend the government since no taxes have been deduced from this amount yet. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I could gather, the income tax for personal business is about 40% so that leaves him with... 2760 ~ 4200$ or an amount of about 250~350$ a month once everything's been accounted for.

      I don't know how much time he devotes to that, but at 15 hours a week, that would amount to somewhere between 4$ ~ 6$ an hour... not really my idea of a decent wage.

  12. Good night, Irene, Adam! You cannot see the forest for the trees. You sound younger and more desparate with each post. You've used up your 'big' ammunition and are now resorting to sand-box name-calling. So typical.

    C.O.R.E. = Show the plan, personal use, retail, books,tapes, functions, accountability, coachability, KATE. THAT is NOT a business plan. Any bank would laugh you out of its building.

    You can qualify for lots of credit so that makes you, what, credible??? 'Bout fell off my chair with that one!

    You 'interview' people to see if the 'qualify' to be mentored? Wowzers. That is your dumbest line yet. This is the lingo you learn at functions to sound like a real business man? You're backpeddling, Adam. You state something and when we call you out on it you justify it in your next post. an interview is an interview - you can't now decide to change it's meaning.

    How dare ambots be out there on the streets calling what they do 'interviewing.' What a crock!

    And so now, counseling upline (part of c.o.r.e.) on an 'emotional' level was my mistake? Are you really gonna go there? Sonny boy, you can't have it both ways. We were told to counsel upline with eveything. If we objected, we weren't coachable. My, how convenient. If you listen and do as you are told but it doesn't work out, it's still your fault. Dang, where do I sign up?

    Are you gonna tell me you didn't even bother to find out what a Schedule C is? That's basic business. Please don't try to tell anyone that you get a 'refund' at tax time. You'll get laughed at. A tax refund is bad news. You just lent the goverment your money, interest free, for a full year. Good luck trying to get one of those from your successful upline. Go ahead and ask. It's fun watching them get all huffy. And then, after you have wiped the raging spit off your face, and if you are feeling really really brave, ask to see the breakout between tools income and sales income.

    You had better be very concerned by how many former diamonds went bankrupt (including Greg Duncan - 3 times, no less). For all their talk of financial freedom, they ain't doin' so good.

    There is simply no reasoning with pretend business owners. Adam, you own nothing. Try to sell anything after you quit. Oh, wait. YOu won't have anything to sell, but you'll probably be able to sit out the next snowstorm in comfort with the boxes of amway goodies in your garage.

    What is so sad about ambots who come in here to 'really give it to us' is the fact that they know almost nothing about business ownership. You can't argue with the wind.


    1. Also, when you own a real business, whether it flourishes or goes bankrupt is mostly up to you. On the other hand, with Amway, your very existence depends on that of the corporation itself. They decide what you sell and how you can sell them. And if you don't conform to the mold, they can just revoke your license. So much for being an "Independent Business Owner".

  13. Jeez it’s like a pack of wolves getting worked up here. Hahaha oh man this is getting good now. Got a lot to cover so I’m gonna try to keep things to the point.

    Why do you think big companies pay celebs and athletes to endorse their product? Advertisement and credibility! It’s the same everywhere.

    Let’s be very honest here Jerry, we are all pretty condescending over on this blog, lol. What kind of credible data do you need? It was moreso two and a half years of dabbling in the system, and in these last 6 months or so we have put in an eagleship. Not the fastest, I’ll admit, but I’m having a lot of fun and making tons of new friends. Being a good friend/family member/husband means to support, encourage, and uplift the people closest to you. Be the person that your family and friends turn to for advice and perspective.

    Have I committed financial suicide? Well considering the situation I am, in fact quite the opposite. It wasn’t even the business income that did it, it was the fact that I had guidance and motivation. Us “grinding away” for 3 years is nonsense. We have been having the BEST time working together and building our foundation and working on our marriage together, and not having to stress about finances or business.

    I will admit Jerry, it may have been someone more seasoned than you posting on this blog that I read a while back, but I do know it was this specific one. I guess you all sound quite similar with the constant repeated negativity...that’s my bad man, I didn’t mean to lie.

    I’m from a bit of a younger generation so you’ll have to help me out here buddy. Not up to speed on this kind of lingo. Name dropping? What do you mean? What false accreditation? What are spin doctor tactics? What are dog and pony show one-liners? Also, who did I call names? How was I being smug?

    My sponsor has LOST so much money by sponsoring us, lol. She has traveled and invested so much into us for very little gain, yet continues to believe in us and encourage us. She’s done this for many people, and is months away from replacing her full time income as a Physical Therapist managing her own does that work?


    The numbers I gave for how much money I make a month were net, and it’s an extra $1000.00 I would otherwise not have gotten. And we generate that income by really enjoying ourselves. I would rather put effort into something that could potentially bring me an ongoing return in the future (this business does that already) than work and make 300x more money for the person who owns the company than I do for myself.

  14. Can someone clarify for me quickly on the name-calling thing? When did I do this? Also...really? YOU guys are going to make those comments? Lol so hypocritical.

    No one said CORE was a business plan. It’s a system used to develop on a personal level, and build an entrepreneurial mentality... The business plan is in the B.O.V. Have you seen/read it?

    Qualifying for credit doesn’t make me credible. I was simply just making a point on the comment about me not having purchased a house yet, and that debt/status isn’t what I call success. Anyone can do that stuff, and the sad truth is that a lot of people can’t qualify for a lot of credit because well, they are financially struggling.

    Interview: A meeting of people face to face for consultation. An interview is an interview... You are just putting it in the incorrect context. If you want me to use a different term or phrase for it how about this: We meet with people to see if they have a positive mindset, a good attitude, and a teachable spirit when it comes to life and finances. Is that better for you?

    So uh, can you tell me what the Schedule C is please or are you content to dance around it and continue to insult me? lol

    I thought I had addressed the bankruptcy point someone else made about Greg... Greg Duncan going bankrupt 6 years ago was the result of his attempt to invest in real estate, which was his own decision. These kinds of deals go sour every single day by people much less successful than Greg, especially with the current economy. The reason he filed for bankruptcy after his properties started being foreclosed on was because he wanted to protect his business assets with Amway and his continuous cash flow, which he accomplished. He was likely advised to take this action by his accountant, but who can say? If anything, he was able to strategically salvage a couple of bum deals by doing this. He’s still very wealthy and financially independent (obviously).

    I don’t really plan on quitting...and I use the products I buy, and when I sell something I just order it from my supplier and have it delivered to my clients directly. I rarely see it, all I get are compliments and appreciation from whoever I service this way.

    It’s funny, the people who come here think the exact same about you guys when it comes to business ownership. So far you guys have proven time and time again how childish you can be. And I can admit that I may have sounded like this as well on a few occasions, but it sometimes feels like I’m literally listening to adolescent nonsense on this blog because it’s just the same stuff over, and over, and over again. Hey I guess it works both ways hey? I just choose to be positive instead of bitter and negative.

    If I came on here saying I was a millionaire and I owned several large businesses, would you believe me? That’s why I don’t really believe any of you either, haha. I am simply taking your word for it because there is actually no real way for me to know for sure the validity of each of your claims, so I give you the benefit of the doubt.


    If it was up to people whether or not their companies go bankrupt, then don’t you think most companies would be more successful and there wouldn’t be a 95% failure rate? It depends on A LOT more than just you.

    With Amway, you decide what you sell (using Amway products, obviously) and how you sell it. Amway has no bias to this, they really don’t care how you do it as long as there is revenue coming in. Hell even if there isn’t they are perfectly content collecting your yearly $70 membership fee. They will only revoke your business licence if you commit public defamation or do something that damages the integrity of the company and/or commit fraud. I guess that stuff would be breaking the mold...but it’s more so a legality issue than anything.

    Phew, things are getting heated!


    1. Just out of curiosity, you claim to make 1000$ NET but have said many a times that your business is 1500PV a month which would place you in the 15% bracket. However, assuming a 3/1 ratio on the BV, which I believe is more or less the general ratio, I still arrive at an amount of 675$ for you and your team. The only way I was able to reach 1000$ a month is if you're in the upper 2400PV bracket. And that's for you and your team. So yeah, you're probably one hell of a good salesman... not to mention that I'm starting to wonder why you keep bothering coming back. I mean it's obvious you're not gonna change anyone's mind so why waste so much time and energy on a useless venture?

    2. Tobbi - sometimes its better not to feed the ambots!

      You're right why does an ambot hang around a blog that is about people who were abused by the assholes in their Amway upline and who've bought Amway's shitty overpriced useless products and think they're going to convert people into signing up again or buying more shit? Its kind of like hanging out at a vegan yoga retreat and trying to convince the guests to buy hot dogs.

    3. And right there, in your own words, is the problem with your mlm, as well as so many others.
      Adam, you came here, but why? Only people looking for the negative side of this business come here. You are not the dragon slayer type, so you didn't come here for a fight. You mentioned legality concerns without previous mention, and now lovingly say your parent company doesn't care how you do it, as long as the money's coming in. So, in a sense, you are implying that you Adam, feel like something isn't right. Otherwise, why are you here?

    4. Retail profits and bonus cheques, every month, amount to about $800 - $1000 consistently, and we run a 1500 PV business. This is net.

      I’m not the best salesman, but I do really enjoy the products so maybe just my personal testimony is what people are attracted to? If you constantly think your product is overpriced shit then probably won’t sell much of it, lol.

      I guess the common question you all are asking is why I continue to post here. Well, I actually kind of enjoy it. That, and I also think that it is a great injustice that this blog exists at all and my hope is that my comments might alleviate at least a little of the hatred and negativity for the poor people reading it. The bloggers here constantly say that people contracting with Amway are wasting their lives and finances and whatever...and yet they’re the ones who take the time to not only anonymously defame the company and organization, but stereotype and directly insult all those who actually do contract with them, and curse their name for no better reason than you had a bad experience dealing with someone many years ago.

      Listen I’m not defending those people. What they did was probably not the best and it really sucks you had the experiences you had. I personally think they are being blown way out of proportion based on what I have heard here, but they happened none-the-less.

      If I don’t like a doctor, do I just never again go to ANY other clinic or hospital? If you HATED your experience with a dentist, and you feel your bill was way overpriced, do you refuse to go get your teeth cleaned by any other dentist because you think it’s some kind of scam?

      I guess I just don’t understand the mentality behind a blog like this. Yes, people come here for the negative side of things, but why?

      I just think it’s sad that people come on here and read what you people have to say about Amway and WWDB and whatever else, and they take it to heart like it will somehow happen to them as well, as if everyone is the exact same. People have low self-images as it is, and reading this stuff isn’t going to boost that, nor is it going to help them out in the long run. The result of this blog isn’t in just that it warns people away from Amway. It encourages poor decision making and gives bias, extremely negative opinions both about people and about potential opportunity. And you’re proud of it... That’s confusing to me.


    5. (I couldn't resist):
      -I didn't ask why you comment here, I know why. I asked why you came here in the first place?
      -As I said before, I didn't believe any of this, until it happened to me, word for word, action for action. Many online stories matched more of what I watched than what the upline told me would happen. We've come here to realize, this isn't an isolated incident, it is a constant. Abduction.
      -The doctor/dentist thing is the same old nonsense. Can you prove you went to school for 5-7 years to proudly make you $10k a year? Do traditional institutions recognize your skillset as something to be taught? Real proof please, not ambot hearsay and catch phrases.
      -You think we are prejudice against all ambots because a few of them are bad. When we came together, here and other websites, we came to realize this isn't just a few bad eggs, unless those eggs are at the top of the training, but that sours the entire system.
      -You continue to ensue that our poor opinion of your "opportunity" means we are smashing your dreams. As I said before, you seem to be well spoken, with an excellent ability to move thoughts to words. This did flail as Cassette Tape riled you up and pushed you into Ambot speak, but you did show some potential. Imagine to ladder you could climb in a 'traditional' (as you put it) business. VP in no time. You are wasting your time and abilities. That is all we have ever tried to tell Ambots. You are not compensated appropriately for the time, work, and talent you put into being an IBO. They justify it by telling you that you have become a better person. You have become a leader. You have met some really nice people. You have a work ethic now. You are improving the lives of others. You are improving the economy. You have a better family life. You are a better person in the eyes of God.
      'Look at it this way: When they asked you to sign up, what did they tell you would happen? Compare that to what you are telling yourself now. Did you sign up for self-betterment? Did you sign up to redefine success? Did you sign up for religious purposes? Did you sign up to improve the lives of others, excluding yourself? Did you sign up to give you and your wife something in common?
      NO. Anything you say otherwise is just justifying your inability to achieve your initial goal. Is it wrong to change your goals? No, but you should change your goals simply to meet your achievements. This is like a baseball player saying, "I only ever wanted to play in the minors. I never really wanted to play in the majors." You are adjusting your ends to meet your means. That isn't dream building, that is the destruction of dreams.
      What you've said to us is simply, "I redefined my goals to mediocrity, because I knew, somewhere deep in my soul, that I would never actually make it to diamond." Is that really building dreams?
      -"I guess I just don’t understand the mentality behind a blog like this. Yes, people come here for the negative side of things, but why?"
      We don't want to see people fall prey to mediocrity or worse. There are plenty of talented people, involved in this nonsense, who could have had a much better, fulfilling life, if they had just applied this newly found work ethic to a real career. This is a side job at best. This will at best pay a bill or two. It is not worth weekly meetings, monthly conferences, quarterly conferences, voicemail, books, audios, etc. Getting completely caught up in this, the system, is what we have a problem with. Sell some product, get real customers, maybe sign up a few who want sell also, without you seeking them out, avoid the hype, avoid the nonsense.

  15. Jerry;

    My sentiments exactly. I'm simply bored of him now. He doesn't merit a response. He has so little business acumen, I can't be bothered.


    1. Speak for yourself. You're worse.

    2. I was going to go at his last one, but now he's back tracking, parroting the black and white negativity mindset, telling it is other lines and not his, and claiming prejudice. His debate fell to the same old Ambot routine. Boring! Bring on the next mindless ambot.

  16. Wow that is quite a thread. Couldn't read all of poor Adam's posts cause all that amspeak was giving me flashbacks. Cassette Tape you made me laugh out loud a couple of times. Thank you. I was in WWDB for 8 years, lost my wife, time with my kids, and of course thousands of dollars before I woke up.

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Comments are moderated but we publish just about everything. Even brainwashed ambots who show up here to accuse us of not trying hard enough and that we are lazy, quitters, negative, unchristian dreamstealers. Like we haven’t heard that Amspeak abuse from the assholes in our upline!

If your comment didn’t get published it could be one of these reasons:
1. Is it the weekend? We don’t moderate comments on weekends. Maybe not every day during the week either. Patience.
2. Racist/bigoted comments? Take that shit somewhere else.
3. Naming names? Public figures like politicians and actors and people known in Amway are probably OK – the owners, Diamonds with CDs or who speak at functions, people in Amway’s publicity department who write press releases and blogs. Its humiliating for people to admit their association with Amway so respect their privacy if they’re not out there telling everyone about the love of their life.
4. Gossip that serves no purpose. There are other places to dish about what Diamonds are having affairs or guessing why they’re getting divorced. If you absolutely must share that here – don’t name names. I get too many nosy ambots searching for this. Lets not help them find this shit.
5. Posting something creepy anonymously and we can’t track your location because you’re on a mobile device or using hide my ass or some other proxy. I attracted an obsessed fan and one of my blog administrators attracted a cyberstalker. Lets keep it safe for everyone. Anonymous is OK. Creepy anonymous and hiding – go fuck yourselves!
6. Posting something that serves no purpose other than to cause fighting.
7. Posting bullshit Amway propaganda. We might publish that comment to make fun of you. Otherwise take your agenda somewhere else. Not interested.
8. Notice how this blog is written in English? That's our language so keep your comments in English too. If you leave a comment written in another language then we either have to use Google translate to put it into English so everyone can understand what you wrote or we can hit the Delete button. Guess which one is easier for us to do?
9. We suspect you're a troublemaking Amway asshole.
10. Your comment got caught in the spam filter. Gets checked occasionally. We’ll get to you eventually and approve it as long as it really isn’t spam.