Monday, March 10, 2014

Ripping Off Customers Secret To Amway Ambot Success?

I’ve attended a few entrepreneur workshops – you know for real business owners not for pretend businesses like Amway's pretend business owners. Just about every entrepreneur in the room says their superior customer service is what sets them apart from their competitors. Or their superior customer service will set them apart if they are still in the process of setting up their business. I don’t know why everybody says that. I guess they all want to think their fantastic customer service will be the talk of the town.

I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anyone say their low prices is what gives them the edge over the competitors. To me that would be the huge bonus over customer service. In this day and age customer loyalty is a thing of the past. People go where they get the best deal and the least amount of hassle.

The thing about customer service is the customer doesn’t always require customer service. I walk into the grocery store with my shopping list and I know where I’m going to find things in the store. I rarely have to ask for assistance so I have no idea if most stores offer good customer service or not.

I’ve heard many Amway IBO’s brag about offering excellent customer service. Most of them didn’t have any customers! So yeah I guess its easy to offer excellent customer service to a zero customer database!

All I can say to Amway IBO’s is if you’re ripping off the customers every time you make a sale - how can that be offering good customer service?

A brainwashed ambot will argue something stupid that Amway products are high quality and the high price reflects the high quality. They ignore independent studies that show Amway products are generic at best and often lower quality than much cheaper brand name products on the grocery shelves.

Eventually customers (and here its probably friends of family giving the IBO a pity sale) will get fed up with paying double or triple what they can buy a similar or better product for at Walmart or Costco or wherever and won’t be back to buy any more Amway shit - no matter how excellent and superior the customer service the IBO’s like to think they possess.

If the customer doesn't need it or thinks its too expensive, no matter how excellent the customer service is, the customer won't be back for another sale.

If IBO’s count on offering great customer service as the secret to their success, they fail to realize that not everyone is looking for superior customer service. I prefer to get good deals and no hassles. That means I don’t want to get ripped off by overpriced Amway products and I don’t want to be hounded by an IBO about how Amway is the secret to financial success and a lifetime of residual income in 2 to 5 years.

Word of mouth recommendations about IBO's customer service and Amway products? I think a lot of bloggers cover this topic. Amway ambots can't move past the reality that no matter how superior their customer service might be - or what they perceive it to be - ripping off customers with high priced inferior products means they are really giving shitty customer service.


  1. I’m sure you have heard it before Anna, but humor me.

    If your son started his own business (no, not an Amway business) that sold...let’s supplies, and started up a store front a few blocks down from an Office Depot or Staples, who would you buy your business products from (I know that you own your own company)?

    Naturally, the buying power of the two companies I named above is much greater than your son, who is just starting out, so they would be able to provide you with a much cheaper a superior product.

    Does your support go to your son’s competitor or to your family?

    Super curious about your answer.

    1. Anonymous - sure we'd buy from our son's store but if we were his only customers then he's going to be fucked and eventually have to shut down! I'd advise him to buy an existing business with a track record of good earnings in a good location with a solid customer base.

    2. My mother looked at the prices and told me this can't work. I agreed cause nothing I find is better quality or priced reasonably. I've seen family of restaurant owners eat elsewhere or wherever more convenient

    3. The duplicate post below was due to a browser error as I was posting. Didn’t think it got posted.

      So you would advise him to buy a franchise essentially, right? Interesting...

      So if you say you would buy from your son in this just answered why someone should be a customer of a family member contracting with Amway. In the above example the products were priced higher and of slightly lower quality (which you claim Amway products are), but you chose to buy them anyway because your own blood was the one looking to benefit from your business.

      An IBO only needs 50PV of client volume in order to receive bonuses from Amway, which in turn creates the residual income they all talk about. Make sense? So if we switch it up a little and say your son now owns an Amway business (this is hypothetical of course) and you chose to support him (not emotionally obviously, your loathing for the Amway corporation and the people contracting with them is quite clear), then you would essentially be allowing him to succeed simply because you shopped from his store instead of the one down the street, because you’re not a completely horrible person.

      This is obviously not to mention his other family members. What would happen if they chose to support him too? Instant monthly profitability from retail for your son because he only pays about $150 per month in overhead, opposed to a storefront which is in the thousands per month.

      Not only that, but his volume and revenue go up and Amway pays him bonuses based on this. So for $150.00 a month...he’s practically immediately making anywhere between $500 - $1000 every month on a part time basis. In fact, he didn’t even have to serve you as a customer. You just went and conveniently shopped online for the things you need (you love this kind of laser accurate shopping according to your post, who needs customer service and human interaction? Am I right?!?!?).

      Let’s flip it back. Your son is now selling office supplies again. Let’s say he works during the day for...your company, and on the side has an office supplies business. He’s now earning an hourly wage from you and making an extra...let’s say an average of about $750 a month just because you and a couple of family members who own traditional businesses need pens, paper, ink, toner, invoices, etc. in order to operate.

      Would you be happy that your son is making an extra $600.00 profit on the side? Or would you go online and post that your son is in some kind of business supplies cult?

    4. Anonymous you have a smart mother!

    5. Anonymous Ambot - people in Amway aren't making $750/month. $7.50/month is more like it.

      I've had parents of Amway ambots show up here to talk about how disrespectable their kid has become after getting involved in the Amway cult. I'd be more in the same boat as them with the tough love. Refusing to buy Amway shit and telling Junior to move out.

    6. Well I’m making more than $750 a month and so are probably 60% of the people in my current market, so your statement just straight negative assumption... Let’s add some objectivity to this discussion and try to refrain from illogical bias.

      We aren’t talking about your son being involved in Amway or in a cult right now. We are hypothetically talking about your son being involved in an office supplies business. I just simply related back to the Amway business after reading your response. The fact is (do the math) that with a few clients buying these products, he could make that amount of money simply from wholesale / retail profit margins because his overhead is so low compared to other traditional storefronts.

      People make their own decisions based on what they choose to believe. If someone’s kid started acting disrespectful then hey that really sucks... Doesn’t have so much to do with Amway as a corporation as simply the people that he chose to associate with and the things he chose to believe. All my friends and family love me to death.

      Haha you would tell your own son to move out because he contracted with Amway? Would you cut all ties to him because he started his own Amway business? He must immediately be a terrible, terrible son, right?

      Anyways... You didn’t really comment on anything I said other than straight up lying to try and prove an unrelated and irrelevant point to what I said... Did you have anything intellectual to add or...?

    7. Anonymous Ambot - everyone in Amway lies about their income. Its part of the scam. When asked to show proof with a profit and loss statement or bank statements or income tax statements not one ambot will show. They prefer to tell. Lies that is. Nothing you've written I haven't heard before or debated it here before. Life of someone in Amway is to lie, deny, defend and distract. Theres more honest ways to make a living than to try to remember everything said at Amway meetings about how to overcome objections.

    8. Hey if you want to lump 100% of people into one group so you can feel comfortable in your argument be my guest...not my problem. Just tells me how non-objective and naive you actually are. We work and we “make our living” just fine at our current jobs and we are glad to have them. Nothing wrong with supplementing my income though. Any person with good business and financial sense knows to create multiple streams of income.

      So like did you interview people or something and derived all of these things as an outsider? Like you actually talked to active IBOs while you were involved with your own Amway business and asked to see their banking, profit, and tax statements? I have to ask...would you show people that documentation for your company simply if they asked if they could see it?

    9. ""I have to ask...would you show people that documentation for your company simply if they asked if they could see it?""
      The difference here is that Anna's son's company is just selling office supplies. I go in, pay x amount of $$, and get a product that's advertised. Or not... if the price is too high, I go to a competitor.

      When I went to several Amway meetings, they showed inspirational videos, made speeches and lectures about how we can expect to make "residual income". No, there was no boasting how we would make a gajillion dollars. They quoted stuff like $50 a month with some work. I did the quickie math where I needed to sell 100 PV a month. I would also need to have 3 downlines. Without the downlines, you don't get any sort of multiplier, so hitting $40/month becomes too difficult. Spending $300 a month just to make the $40 makes no sense. And NO, I won't use enough of those Amway stuff to make it worth my while.

      So the problem is, they're trying to sell me that this is better than a job. Well, the burden of proof is on them then to demonstrate that most of the $$ made is from selling Amway consumables and NOT the training material. I'd need proof from my upline, and documentation does that as I won't take their word for it.

      THAT's the difference between an office supply store and Amway

  2. I’m sure you have heard it before Anna, but humor me.

    If your son started his own business (no, not an Amway business) that sold...let’s supplies, and started up a store front a few blocks down from an Office Depot or Staples, who would you buy your business products from (I know that you own your own company)?

    Naturally, the buying power of the two companies I named above is much greater than your son, who is just starting out, so they would be able to provide you with a much cheaper a superior product.

    Does your support go to your son’s competitor or to your family?

    Super curious about your answer.

    1. Why do Amway ambots always repeat themselves?

  3. As a parent, I would send my kid to a GOOD business college so he wouldn't be stupid enough to open a store down the street from major competition that has better prices. I would totally advise my kids NOT to do that.
    If my kid were selling a pack of canned energy drinks that were four times the price of red bull, I'd say "Honey, this is a bad idea." I might shop there, but, like someone else said, if I'm the only one shopping there, he'd be out of business, and frankly, it would be his fault. There is no way I'd shell out 400 bucks for a water treatment system. I would also NOT buy something I don't need or want. I need things like milk, veggies, fruit. I also wouldn't buy beauty products that are very expensive BUT I can't try them on. I'd spend 45 dollars on Lancome foundation, because I can go to the counter, and have the lady to a perfect match to my skintone, get some samples to try it out. Then, if I still like it, I can go online and see if I can get the stuff cheaper somewhere else.

    I did "support my friend" who was in Amway. I bought a necklace, some energy bars, and XS. I don't have a ton of money, and I don't even like energy drinks. I was the ONLY person who bought this stuff, and it was totally sympathy. You can't run a successful business because people pity you and feel badly that you sunk all your money into a failing idea. Steve Jobs was insanely rich because he came up with an AMAZING product that no one else could copy. Do people try? Yeah, even Bill Gates. But, to be very successful, you can't sell things people don't want to buy, or if they do, it's because they are your pals.

    1. You're a nice friend to do the pity purchase thing but you don't want to be an enabler either and give them false hope this scam can work. But yay to everything you said.

  4. One more thing (man, I'm on a role today), if I was opening a business that I totally owned, the last thing I would want is for people to open THE SAME EXACT business all over the place. If I owned a McDonald's I'd want people to come to MINE so I could make money. I wouldn't want 100 of my friends opening it up all over the place. But, again, in Amway, the money DOESN'T come from selling products, like McDonald's. A teeny bit might. It would come from those 100 people opening the same business, because I'd get a piece of their action. Again, I don't see how they can keep comparing themselves to fast food franchises.

    1. It was a very hypothetical scenario but thanks for humoring me with this.

      What is a good business college? How is that working out for most other people? Know of any college grads who took business management/economics/marketing that are rocking it right now and aren’t in insane debt? Could you pay their tuition and/or other costs? I ask because...every single one I have talked to (which is a lot) have either said they can’t find work or it wasn’t what they thought it would be and they ended up just managing someone else’s company. They are in insane amounts of debt because their family went down the same path and couldn’t afford to pay for their schooling. I am legitimately asking.

      Your son (or Anna’s, whatever) would be out of business if he were operating a traditional business, there’s no question about that. That wasn’t really the question though. The question was if you would support him, regardless.

      So you never drink a bottled or canned beverage? You never eat snacks, take vitamins, wash your hair, or apply makeup? Listen, I wasn’t asking if you would buy the office supplies you wouldn’t need to use ever. I was asking if you would buy the stuff you did need/want, like the above mentioned stuff, from your son in order to make your life/business better even if it was a little more money.

      Amway has a 180 day satisfaction guarantee on pharmaceutical grade skin care and makeup so I am not entirely sure where you’re coming from. Of course you could go to the storefront and buy Lancome products, but you couldn’t purchase, use half of them, then return it for a full refund to that retail outlet. You can when you buy Artistry products, and Amway provides tone matching services before you order.

      Thank you for supporting your friend. That’s what friends should do.

      Honestly all my customers come to me with repeat orders because of how great the stuff is. I don’t even have to try and make sales anymore...they just seem to happen.

      Even the founders of the Amway corporation aren’t as wealthy as Gates and Jobs. Poor example. For many IBOs it’s not so much about generating billions of dollars, it’s about creating a business asset that pays the bills without them having to work. Every single successful business person thinks this way. Edison didn’t build his empire because he created the light bulb, he did so by developing a system and a company that paid him without him having to worry about showing up every day.

      Money comes from many different places in an Amway business, both in retail and in bonuses. Ray Kroc owned the rights to McDonalds and thus made small percentages of profit whenever one of the franchises made their money. That is how a franchise business model works. Amway is similar in the fact that any IBO can make percentage bonuses based on the total revenue volume that he or she and his or her team generates for the primary company (Alticor and/or Amway).

      In fact it’s almost a little better, because with McDonalds, Ray Kroc would be taking up to 3% (based on contract) profit from each of those storefronts, whereas with the Amway model, Amway simply pays IBOs bonus money from a separate account that would otherwise be used for marketing expenses, so you would never actually take any profit from anyone you endorse into business and would simply get paid based on your performance.

    2. Amway speciializes in over saturation and hopes the ambots don't figure it out.

    3. AnonymousMarch 11, 2014 at 2:33 PM I am a father of two, and therefore I've managed to accommodate a relatively strenuous annual budget in order to keep tabs with rising expenses or retirement opportunities we might encounter.

      Due to the nature of such predicament (you’ll think I’m a horrible father), I would never even consider the possibility of purchasing from either one of my children if they risked going into business and investing in search of any type of a profit when doing so would jeopardize my annual budget…just because they are my children.

      Yes, I may sound horrible, yes I may sound insensitive, yes I might not be anyone’s favorite after this…however, an investment is an investment, which always means…there is room for risks. I would hope that both of my children would understand that I would always be there for them emotionally, but economically we’re all on our own. Once you become an adult, your decisions give you your outcomes.

      I would never want my children to grow up believing that all they have to do in life to survive is gain pity.

      A great business is that which sustains itself, on its own. It’s a business that provides for both the business owner and the customer in the same. You want something I’m selling, I want to sell it to you, you’ll look for a competitive price, I’ll try to convince you I have a competitive price or product, or both, and you’ll make a decision based on that…not because I’m your father or you’re my son!

      Yes, it’s a horrible way to live, but making wise decisions in the name of competitive investment is what life is all about. Family is family, but wise investments are security for a family, even if it means severing family ties.

    4. -Standard brick and mortar stores do not hold the reputation issues of MLMs.
      -Standard brick and mortar stores do not try to guilt you into purchasing. You are trying to use the guilt trip method of purchasing on us, which leads me to believe that is how your customers are buying monthly. They are humoring you. Pity-purchasing. If your father tried to sell you race car parts at twice the average rate because they are premium parts, would you buy race car parts from him? Do you even need race car parts?
      -Brick and mortar stores look good on a resume. Even failed ones. Amway IBO looks poor on a resume. I know what you are thinking, you won't need a resume sipping fruity drinks on a beach, but things can fall through. Ambots speak of doom and gloom on this side, it can happen to you.
      -Brick and mortar stores would require training, but again, that is useful training that can go on a resume. I doubt anyone has ever put Britt University on a resume. (that is a phrase I saw coined by an IBO)
      -Brick and mortar stores don't often have to worry about being investigated constantly or being audited constantly.

      I'm going to throw this phrasing at you, as I am sure you have said it, or heard it said by a fellow Ambot: You have no credibility in this regard as you do not seem to understand how legitimate businesses work.

      Your comparisons are parroted nonsense that has nothing to do with the conversation. MLM membership and nearly everything you have mentioned are comparing apples to rocks. It doesn't fit.

      Also, you are now comparing yourself, with very broad, allegorical, statements, to EDISON? I've seen Ambots compare themselves to Trump, Zuckerberg, Gates, Ray Kroc, Edison (I've even heard a loose comparison to Jesus). Where does the arrogance end? The thing about them is they created the idea, they didn't peddle it. You peddle Amway, you didn't create it. See how this works?


    5. Anonymous you are probably only a bad father in the eyes of an ambot because you're not in Amway. Teach your children how to be responsible law abiding citizens and the other stuff that those in Amway won't do.

    6. You're right Jerry but a brainwashed ambot won't believe anything unless it comes from the lying mouth of one of Amway's cult leaders.

    7. The comment about how Amway is great because you can return things for a refund is nuts. So, it's ok to spend 42 dollars on foundation that you can't try on before you shell out the same money you'd spend on Lancome, Laura Mercier, etc, (which you can actually have someone physically assist you, see your skin tone, and try several out until you get a perfect match) because at Amway they give you refunds. Here's the deal, if I am spending that kind of money on something I can't try on ahead of time, they sure as heck better give me a refund! Those places ALSO give out copious samples for you to try before you spend a lot of money on skincare products. They give you a week's worth so you can go home and give it a go.

      Also, the refund thing is NOT special or unique to Amway. Sephora, which sells a VARIETY of high end makeup (which is why it's spreading all over the country, and has a great website) gives refunds. Walmart gives refunds. Most places do refunds. And, yes, full refunds. Victoria's Secret lets you return underwear (My friend worked there for several years).

      And bringing up Edison, Gates, Steve Jobs, and Ray Kroc, and comparing them to the average IBO? You must be kidding. All of these men were innovators! Changed the world! CAME UP WITH THEIR OWN THING. IBOs haven't innovated ANYTHING. They get a website of stuff they didn't create or invent and sell products they had nothing to do with creating, marketing, or producting, and have people buy it, and act like they are these Titans of business? If you REALLY want to be like these men, get out there and DO YOUR OWN THING. Put your OWN spin on it.

      He also pointed out something like most people who get involved don't dream about being rich, they just want to pay their bills. Ummmm, I've seen footage of the weekend seminars. There are dollar bills floating from the ceiling. The people are encouraged to make posters of all the fancy things they want to buy. They pass around their diamonds and show pictures of their McMansions.So, don't act like these people are just trying to make the average living.

      Also, you imply that going to college is a horrible thing because of debt, and it would be better to join Amyway because it doesn't cost as much, and you'd get the same result. You said college is also bad because then you'd work for some OTHER company. Why is working for someone else's SUCCESSFUL company a bad thing? First of all, you have one thing if you go to a good college and get a business degree (Harvard, Wharton School of Business, Indiana University has a good school of business) that you don't get from Amway. A COLLEGE DEGREE. CONNECTIONS WITH OTHER BRILLIANT PEOPLE. Bill Gates never finished Harvard, but he made connections with people who helped him get where he is. The Facebook guy started facebook in college with the help of his rich, brilliant friends. People take people seriously when they have a college degree. It opens doors.

      Saying "I went to high school, and became an IBO with Amway" is NOT something people would take seriously. Donald Trump is very wealthy, he could just give his kids high paying jobs. Did they go to college? YES. So, yes, as a mom I'd encourage my kid to go to college if they wanted to go into business.

    8. To the father of two. I don’t think you’re a bad father just because you struggle financially. Lord knows you’re not alone in that regard.

      I did like how you said you would support them emotionally though, as a good father and parent would. Anna and a lot of other Amway loathers on this blog would kick their children to the curb if they started seriously looking at some kind of Amway or MLM business venture.

      You’re right, a great business is that which sustains itself. It’s unfortunate though that a lot of traditional business ventures are in jeopardy on a constant basis. I’m not saying Amway businesses aren’t either as business is business, but it’s much easier to sustain something with a small fraction of the overhead that has so much room for profitability. I can work 1 day at my job and pay my business monthly overhead with the money I make from that 8 hour shift. Most traditional owners work 70 – 100 hours a week on their business and struggle to pay the bills at the end of it. Why do you think so many go under?


      - You’re right, they don’t. So?
      - I have discussed this point already... It’s not a guilt trip it’s a matter of values. You either support someone who is family or you support someone else...there’s no pity or guilt tripping involved. Notice I never said that the son asked for your business or support, giving that to them is up to you. And why would I buy race car parts? I don’t understand what you’re talking about with that. It would be financially moronic to buy things I don’t use or need... Do you need to use office supplies when you run your own business?
      - You can operate an Amway business on the side, meaning you don’t even need to add it to a resume if you don’t want to and in fact shouldn’t when you’re looking for a job. Do you think an employer would see that you tried to work your own brick and mortar store and failed and see that as an asset to his or her company? Not only would the person on the resume be entrepreneurial minded but would likely rebel and not adhere to his or her superiors within the company pyramid. Hiring that person would not be good business sense because they may leave the company at any given moment to pursue another business endeavour.
      - Every single business needs to take necessary precautions when it comes to being investigated and/or audited. Why do you think invoices and receipts exist? In fact, a brick and mortar store would need to take even more precautions with that sort of thing. Practically verything I need to show the government is documented online through Amway’s legal team.

      What you’re saying has nothing to do with credibility at this time.

      I wasn’t comparing anything. I was simply inquiring about someone’s values, which can apply to either business model because it’s not about the business so much as it is simply about who someone chooses to support.

      I never compared myself to Edison. I made a factual statement about him to make a point about financial assets and that systems help people create time in their lives. That is one of the goals for people building an Amway business. It’s not about creation or inventing so much as developing a sustained residual income, which is what all of the people you listed did. The Facebook web page design and programming didn’t build wealth for Zuckerberg, the ridiculously massive network of people that joined it did.

      Anna, do you realize you’re the one who sounds completely brainwashed by repeating yourself over, and over, and over again with the same made up terminology? I think it’s kind impressive actually that you managed to do it all on your own.

    9. To the Lancome gal, your first comment... I’m not sure if it’s an argument or not... So the answer to your question is yes, it’s okay.

      Sephora will give you a refund after using half a foundation after 4 months if you present the receipt and say to them “hey, I didn’t like this stuff and I want all my money back.”? I know Walmart only accepts refunds for items still in its package and sometimes they just give you a gift card so you can just continue to shop there (which is smart for Walmart). Victoria’s Secret lets you return used underwear for a full refund? Yeah okay.

      All of those people are great and they changed the world. The average IBO will not and cannot do what they did unfortunately, and the same can be said for the VAST majority of the world’s population (like 99.9999%). Again, that wasn’t what I was saying. I was making a statement that each of those men created their empire not simply because they invented a product the people wanted, but by developing a system in which they could generate a sustainable, residual income. This is the goal of an IBO, just on a much smaller scale. An IBO won’t change the world, but they might be able to give them and their family a better life.

      They do those things to help people become un-indoctrinated and start dreaming again. The freedom in America is typically squandered by people just looking to get by and leave nothing behind. Some people are motivated by material wealth and so they do that kind of stuff to encourage growth. Some of it is pretty extreme I will admit. Personally I’m not really about that stuff. I can’t take it with me.

      I have no problem with post-secondary education. I went through 4 years of it myself, and my wife went through 7 to get her masters degree. Is that the be-all-end-all to your financial future? Nah. You’ll find that a lot, if not most of the very successful business people in society are college drop-outs because they understood that school wasn’t going to guarantee them jack. It used to... Like 40 – 50 years ago a degree would set you apart from the masses, but now every single year every university is graduating hundreds of individuals with the exact same degrees and the demand for those particular jobs is becoming more and more competitive and hard to come by because people can’t afford to retire.

      The basis of your point is that college is good because basically you get to network with You have a mindset of a network marketer.

      Your kid wouldn’t learn about being an entrepreneur in business school. He or she would learn about how to manage someone else’s business sadly because the school system is designed that way (by the government).

      You could say something like “I went to school to get a masters degree in Occupational Therapy but afterward realized I was very limited in my capacity to help people with what they actually needed. I started my own independent Amway business and received entrepreneurial training from some successful people here in the city and have been able to help mentor a few individuals on how to create a business asset for themselves. My genuine hope is that this endeavour will grow my leadership skills so that I can further increase my ability to help others.”

    10. I remember the thing I possibly heard the most when I was in Amway was how people in Amway were the innovators of the world, and everyone not in Amway was way behind the curve. I don't understand how simply joining Amway and following a system that has been around since 1959 is exactly "innovation."

      I would go as far as to say that Amway is far behind the times in terms of its business practices. I mean, they still teach cold calling and cold contacting in public places. Who does that anymore? And Communikate is incredibly dumb too, and I'm shocked that such a "21st century" business would still use such an outdated thing. I mean who in their right mind would pay to listen to a voicemail?

    11. Anonymous @ 6:04. Yikes up and at 'em early or else you're in another time zone BTW!!! LOL! This ambot doesn't say anything new. That's why they're Amway ambots. Brainwashed and programmed to repeat what their beloved leaders tell them. You won't hear them put their own spin on it. And yapping about Amway and refunds like they're the only company out there that does refunds. Just shows ambots don't get out in there in the real world and real shops. Just about everywhere offers refunds. Ha!

    12. Anonymous @ 9:33 - yup Amway is behind the times. People in Amway sneer at the rest of the world for not being in Amway. However the rest of the world greatly outnumbers people in Amway and sneers at them. We have sneering power on our side. Dumb ass ambots don't get it that this blog is all about tossing back in their faces the way Amway ambots treat the rest of the world. Brainwashed ambot up there is not as fun as most of them to play with.

    13. "All of those people are great and they changed the world."
      -Sure, they found a way to get the word out on their products, but that is where the comparison ends between them and an IBO, and it is a frail comparison. Apples and rocks. IBOs are part of a system. not the innovator. Otherwise what you are saying is Edison invented X, he then found a bunch of people who like X, and got them to invent X also. Apples and rocks.

      "start dreaming again."
      -What dream is that? My line told me my dreams were wrong, weak and failed to really reach out. The only dreams endorsed are the greedy ones (the world's beaches you've never thought of prior, the cars you didn't know existed, the house with more rooms than double family members). If this isn't true, what is your not so greedy dream? Every defense you've given of the dream still points to greed (just getting by is a cute form of insulting a proper budget)

      You’ll find that a lot, if not most of the very successful business people in society are college drop-outs because they understood that school wasn’t going to guarantee them jack. "

      -Preposterous and erroneous. College grads, on average make nearly double that of those with a diploma. Those few who did that IBOs idealize are a select few, not a majority.
      (that is backing statements with facts)

      "You could say something like..."
      This entire paragraph seems to point toward: you're feeling, because you are a better person, you have succeeded in business. Did you join to make new friends and improve your outlook on life? To mentor others? To create a business asset (which in itself is a lie)? Or did you join like the rest, to make more money? We are tired of this re-imagining of goals to suit the means. You aren't walking beaches and driving Maz's. You are driving rustbuckets and walking to your next meeting. So, why not make that your dream right?


    14. I realize I missed some direct comment from Ambot nutball, and I'm bored tonight so:

      "You’re right,.."
      "It’s not a guilt trip it’s a matter of values."
      -Yes, it is a guilt trip. Why bring up buying from your son if not to instill guilt trip purchases? Buy from a friend, family member, or stranger.... why does each title matter. Not values, but certainly ethics, something you are failing at.
      "And why would I buy race car parts?"
      -Exactly. You own a car don't you? You care about quality don't you? Why not spend a little more to put quality race car parts in your car? Your father is selling them..... get it?
      "Do you think an employer would see that you tried to work your own brick and mortar store and failed and see that as an asset to his or her company?"
      -As I said, failed business ventures do hold merit. MLMs do not.
      "Not only would the person on the resume be entrepreneurial minded but would likely rebel and not adhere to his or her superiors within the company pyramid."
      -Company 'hierarchy' is the term you were looking for. This speaks so poorly of Ambots. Thank you. Submit to upline, but fuck your boss, right?
      " In fact, a brick and mortar store would need to take even more precautions with that sort of thing. "
      -Exactly, because if an IBO messes up, Amway just fires them. If a business messes up, it is all on them. Again, yet another reason this is not a real business.
      "Why do you think invoices and receipts exist?"
      Can I have a receipt for the last AMO conference I attended? Do you have one for yours? NOPE
      Brick and mortar stores would insist on receipts for such things. Hence, the dilemma.
      "It’s not about creation or inventing so much as developing a sustained residual income, which is what all of the people you listed did."
      -By creating or developing something new, not regurgitating the same nonsense that has been repeated to negligible individual success for 50+ years. What they have and you lack is innovation.
      "The Facebook web page design and programming didn’t build wealth for Zuckerberg, the ridiculously massive network of people that joined it did."
      -Did the idea of Facebook make him money? or the network? If you mean to compare IBOs to him, then ONLY THE NETWORK counts. However, his ingenious dating site (as it was when I joined, you could actually find out who the hot girl was in psych class) is what makes him money. He could have sold the idea and been done with it. The network services him and his idea. You, as an IBO are servicing Amway. Your downline doesn't service you, they service Amway. You are all in service/ employment of Amway. You are the network. You are the sheep. You comparisons are irrelevant, misleading, and false.

      AND to go back to what I originally replied to:
      "Your kid wouldn’t learn about being an entrepreneur in business school. "
      -False. He wouldn't learn anything about being and entrepreneur (could you even spell that before Amway?) going to cheerleader conferences for his AMO. In business school they teach you how to make money from a business. How to turn profit. This is entrepreneurship at it's peak. Not making networks (here comes the Robert K quotes), or meeting interesting people. Not comparing yourself to geniuses and following a faulty game plan that has been churning people through like crazy for 50+ years.

      Are you really so arrogant as to see the fallacy of your logic?


    15. Jerry - maybe he'll be back to try more defend and distract tactics after checking with his upline. Got to get those answers to everything from somewhere.

    16. from Anonymous March 13, 2014 at 6:04 AM
      ""The comment about how Amway is great because you can return things for a refund is nuts. So, it's ok to spend 42 dollars on foundation that you can't try on before you shell out the same money you'd spend on Lancome, Laura Mercier, etc, (which you can actually have someone physically assist you, see your skin tone, and try several out until you get a perfect match) because at Amway they give you refunds. Here's the deal, if I am spending that kind of money on something I can't try on ahead of time, they sure as heck better give me a refund! Those places ALSO give out copious samples for you to try before you spend a lot of money on skincare products. They give you a week's worth so you can go home and give it a go.""
      I went to an Amway meeting hosted at a private residence. The hostess served Nabisco, Keebler, and Coke products. You'd think they would provide samples of Amways superior stuff but they don't. Deep down, they either don't believe in their product and hope you buy into becoming a downline before then, don't want you to know the quality and later put 2 and 2 together with how much they cost, or yeah, it's simply too expensive to give out.

  5. Wow. Almost 20 years later and these dweebs are still telling the Ray Kroc stories. Sheesh!! Someone shut that idiot up before I give him an inferiority complex Dick style!!

    1. Ambot Dick - nothing ever changes in Amway except the claims of compensation on the increase and the amount of people scammed hitting the Internet to warn others. Your Spring Leadership story is coming up again soon! Thanks!

    2. Come on Dick, join in.

      It is so much fun.


    3. Seriously Jerry.... How can I not go off on this kind of idiot?
      Next week we find out he's stealing from his grandmother (who by the way, is giving him free room and board in her basement) but today.... He's the prince of self esteem!!
      Ah... Isn't life just grand when you're in scamway?

      Btw-- I always enjoy your posts Jerry. I'm a big fan :-)

    4. Thanks Dick. I enjoy your posts, as well. Always well worded and to the point.

      I do, at times, feel bad going at these people, though. It is like poaching the witless to win an argument. I just know that, most of them, are likely very good people who now sit at the apex of sunk loss, and are trying everything in their power to prove themselves right, regardless of the immensely poignant wave of reality crashing in. I feel bad for them, but sometimes, all someone needs is a swift metaphorical kick, to right their own ship. I really hope we do keep people away from this, or help them realize all hope is not lost when they get out.


    5. Jerry - I feel bad for some of them too. You just want tp slap some sense into them and say aren't you reading our
      stories about the hell we went through and learn from our experiences. And then some of the ambots that show up here with the typical nasty Amway asshole attitude you just want to say fuck you, you deserve to lose money in this scam.

  6. To anonymous @ 7: 57: Yes, there are other companies that offer full refunds for products you don't like. Also, that probably doesn't happen a lot, because, as I said, if I can try on foundation at the store, knowing its a perfect match, I'm probably not going to return it. Read makeup reviews on, MANY women say they didn't like the color or a product made their skin break out, and they returned it. So, again, Amway is not the only company that has a full refund policy, YES if you brough a half used bottle of serum back to sephora with a receipt four months later, you WILL get a full refund. But, it's even better, because at Sephora, you can actually try the stuff out before you buy it! And you have the choice of shopping online OR going to the store, and getting it the day you need it! Believe me, as a woman, I know how hard it is to find your perfect foundation. Once you find it, you will rarely switch to another company, much less buying expensive stuff just because your son is an IBO.

    To the other person who said Amway naysayers would "kick their kids to the curb if they joined Amway".... um... what? Do you not see a difference between "sweetie, I've done research and there is very little chance for success, so maybe you want to find something else" and "GET OUT OF MY HOUSE, I DISOWN YOU!". I mean, really, if my kid is able to fully support him/herself, they can do whatever they want as long as it's legal and doesn't hurt anyone. If my kid wanted to be a performance artist, I'd say great, but I'd suggest getting another job to pay the bills and rent. I wouldn't lend my kid a few hundred bucks to go to a weekend seminar for Amway. I wouldn't pay off the debt he'd rack up buying products he normally wouldn't buy.

    It's funny how a lot of people in Amway keep repeating the bits about "But we give FULL REFUNDS!" "Walk the beaches of the world!" "Don't steal people's dreams!"

    How is pointing out reality "killing a dream". It's kind of like the movie Sunset Boulevard. Norma Desmond is that washed up actress, and Joe Gillis comes along and realizes that she is NUTS and living in her past glory, and that Butler guy who keeps writing her thousands of fan letters so she can keep living in a dream world. Is that what Amway thinks parents should do? If my kid's dream is to become a Hollywood movie star, I'd say great! But, yes, in realityland, I'd also say, "darling, you do have to support yourself until you become a movie star" I'm not going to let my kid just live at home, not work a (gasp) J.O.B., and fullly financially support him until he becomes the next Brad Pitt.

    If they did Amway, I'd point out that the people who are making the mega bucks (Dexter, Bill Britt) aren't that rich because they have a long downline. That the majority of their income comes from selling tools and everything, and that he is not going to get a cut of it. I'd make him read Merchants of Deception, and Fake it til You Make it.

    "Lancome Gal"

    1. Hey Lancome Gal - the problem with getting refunds from Amway is its a problem. First you have to deal with the assholes at Amway's I -don't-give-a-fuck desk. Then you got to deal with the assholes in your upline for a shit kicking because that refund just cost everyone some PV. Everyone upline goes into the PV hole on refunds. Its easier to throw the shit out than go through all that trouble.

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  8. It's Lancome gal again. So, I was bored and checked out the Amway website (like I said, I have a freakish obsession with studying Amyway and how screwed up it is). Ok. So, speaking of ripping people off: They sell "xs energy GUM." Holy crap, is this for real?

    On top of that, the price is even more ridiculous than any other product on the website (and that says a lot). 5 packs of gum, which has 12 pieces each, is $18.50!!!!! FOR GUM!!!!!

    I went to Walmart on Saturday to get some things, and I looked at how much a pack of gum goes for. Are you ready? 97 cents a pack, for 14 pieces. .97 cents a pack vs. $3.70 a pack. I'd love to hear their justification for the price. Gum is gum people. But, according to the Amway site, this gum gives you energy.

    Also, who the hell buys gum over the internet? Gum is what you buy at the grocery store checkout. Or at the gas station on a long car trip.

    I just needed to share to see if anyone else has seen this and finds it as completely assinine and ridiculous as I do. A real business person would be a fool to expect people to pack 3.70 for a pack of GUM.

    1. So whats more nasty XS cat piss water or XS cat piss gum? The price has to be high because so many assholes in the Amway upline need to get a cut of the commission on each sale and head office needs to make their profit. Yeah the gum and the packaging probably not more than .20 cents.


Comments are moderated but we publish just about everything. Even brainwashed ambots who show up here to accuse us of not trying hard enough and that we are lazy, quitters, negative, unchristian dreamstealers. Like we haven’t heard that Amspeak abuse from the assholes in our upline!

If your comment didn’t get published it could be one of these reasons:
1. Is it the weekend? We don’t moderate comments on weekends. Maybe not every day during the week either. Patience.
2. Racist/bigoted comments? Take that shit somewhere else.
3. Naming names? Public figures like politicians and actors and people known in Amway are probably OK – the owners, Diamonds with CDs or who speak at functions, people in Amway’s publicity department who write press releases and blogs. Its humiliating for people to admit their association with Amway so respect their privacy if they’re not out there telling everyone about the love of their life.
4. Gossip that serves no purpose. There are other places to dish about what Diamonds are having affairs or guessing why they’re getting divorced. If you absolutely must share that here – don’t name names. I get too many nosy ambots searching for this. Lets not help them find this shit.
5. Posting something creepy anonymously and we can’t track your location because you’re on a mobile device or using hide my ass or some other proxy. I attracted an obsessed fan and one of my blog administrators attracted a cyberstalker. Lets keep it safe for everyone. Anonymous is OK. Creepy anonymous and hiding – go fuck yourselves!
6. Posting something that serves no purpose other than to cause fighting.
7. Posting bullshit Amway propaganda. We might publish that comment to make fun of you. Otherwise take your agenda somewhere else. Not interested.
8. Notice how this blog is written in English? That's our language so keep your comments in English too. If you leave a comment written in another language then we either have to use Google translate to put it into English so everyone can understand what you wrote or we can hit the Delete button. Guess which one is easier for us to do?
9. We suspect you're a troublemaking Amway asshole.
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