It was very important to the Amway Platinum cult leader to make sure his followers understood that they must “submit to upline” and they had to ask permission on everything they did: attending family functions, getting married, having children, buying a house, buying a car, moving, renovations, quitting a job, etc. In other words “get permission” for any of life’s decisions that most responsible adults can figure out on their own without a cult’s influence.
Ambot and I made a decision on our house that was causing trouble. It never got done. I’m finally pissed off enough one day to ask him what’s taking so damn long. Ambot tells me he asked the Platinum sack of shit for permission and was counselled against it.
What!?
Fuck you, you miserable son of a bitch pompous sack of shit Platinum! You’ve crossed the line. This is none of your fucking business asshole. I don’t see your name on the mortgage. I don’t see your name on the deed. And I especially don’t see any cash from you on a regular basis contributing to the monthly expenses on our house.
I told Ambot I wasn’t going to have anything else to do with that meddling motherfucker and refused to be dragged out to any more cult meetings.
To make a long story short Ambot left the cult right not too long after this blow up deciding our relationship was more important to him and the renovation was done. It is quieter. The air is cleaner. I’m no longer suffering from breathing problems. No more stress. And we’re saving money.
This is just one of those frightening examples where I needed something done to my living environment to make it healthier for me but the cult leader decided I should be sick and unhappy instead and influenced Ambot thinking this would have some control issue over me. This cult nearly destroyed our marriage but fortunately Ambot came to his senses, got some counselling from a real professional to assist him in leaving a cult, and got those troublemaking bastards out of his life.
So one more time we send out a big old FUCK YOU to Amway and all those
fucking assholes in the Amway upline.
I keep on reading your blog and saying "this is the most disturbing thing about Amway" "this is the most disturbing thing about Amway." I have to say, however, that this 'asking for permission thing' is probably the most disturbing thing. How the hell do they think they have the right to counsel someone on their life, when psychologists and certified counsellors, who have been trained for 6-7 years, aren't even supposed to tell people what to do? What's so disturbing is one of my upline told this girl she didn't have to go to school...she should instead join Amway. I don't think she joined, thank God.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous- but is this different than any other cult? I think Amway cult leaders use the same Jim Jones handbook that other cult leaders use. It’s definitely disturbing and if a cult leader is dealing with an obstinate wife they probably up the brainwashing on their cult follower to force him to submit to them. The Amway cult is horrifying in so many ways.
DeleteDear Anna --
ReplyDeleteThis is interesting. You and Ambot decide on some minor repair or alteration that is needed in your house. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Amway or Amway products.
Your fucking Platinum tells your husband not to do the job. In other words, he tells Ambot that a decision made by a husband and wife can be overridden by an up-line, even if the matter is not an Amway matter.
This is really scary -- and cult-like! What the hell does this fat-assed Platinum scumbag have to do with your private home? Where does he get off vetoing what homeowners have decided?
It seems to me that behind this story lie two motives. The first was the Platinum's desire to prevent you and your husband from spending a serious sum of money, which would then be unavailable for Amway fees. The second was sheer power-lust -- the Platinum wanted to crack the whip and tell you that "he was boss" in everything, even non-Amway matters. If you had given in, he would have started to press even harder to control every aspect of your lives.
When you tell Amway up-line to fuck off, you are reasserting your freedom and independence. From Amway's point of view, it means you are "uncoachable." But in reality it means that you are finally free.
Hi Anonymous - I’m sure you’re dead on. Whenever a person comes into a power position they can turn into dictators. This is so true in Amway. What if the roof was leaking? An Amway cult leader would say put a bucket under the leak. Why spend $5000 on a new roof when you could spend that money buying Amway shit. If you don’t get a roof repaired it causes other problems when it rains. Soaks the insulation and the walls causing mold and possibly electrical issues. Which ends up costing more money down the road.
DeleteThere was one guy who wanted to start a family but the sack of shit Platinim “counselled” him no. A couple months later the dude announced his wife is pregnant. The sack of shit ranted at him the whole cult meeting that night. I wasn’t there. Just heard about his anger at being disobeyed and his realization that a new baby is going to suck away money he hopes to scam off this dude.
This is what happens at Amway cult meetings. No business advice. Just a cult leader shitting on disobedient Ambots.
Hi Anna,
ReplyDeleteI recently discovered my boyfriend is apart of Amway. All along I was thinking he was being counseled by some selfless Christian couple who wanted to help him get on his feet post college graduation. However, I decided one day to start looking up "people retiring in their twenties" and "internships" related to that and discovered your blog along with many others. I am scared for my boyfriend. I've tried reasoning with him but he is seemingly brainwashed. It is mind-blowing to me because he is incredibly intelligent. However, he just soaks up everything within his Amway "internship" like a sponge! Unquestioning! He told me anything I found on the internet was just people complaining because they didn't "work hard enough" or "failed so they are mad". I asked him if any of the websites including yours that I showed him concerned him, and he said yes they sound scary, "but it's a good thing that isn't my situation!" What?! He said he could find everything he needed on Amway's website.... and he wasn't even curious about looking anywhere else. We are talking about the top of his class college graduate. I just don't understand. I also wonder if he asked his uplines about moving with me. He has told me from the beginning that he wouldn't be dating me if he didn't see a future with me (For background, I will be moving away for graduate school in a year). He had also told me previously that he had a really hard time with long distance relationships.
Hi Anonymous. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Whether or not it makes you feel any better, your story is really no different than anyone else who is in a relationship with an Amway Ambot. We all have very similar stories.
DeleteIf you haven't already done so, you need to download a free ebook called Merchants of Deception. There's a link on the right side of this page under more info about Amway. It is a true life horror story written by a former Amway Emerald. At the height of his "career" he had 1000 people in his downline and was earning around $30,000/year. A far cry from the big bucks the Amway cult leaders promise are to be made in Amway. What are the chances your boyfriend knows and can find and keep 1000 people who will buy at least $300 of useless overpriced Amway shit every month so that he can make $2 to $3,000/month? We both know the answer.
If Amway commissioned sales reps were really retiring in the 20's - Amway's PR team would be blowing that out their asses all over the Internet. It just ain't true. The only people retiring in their 20's are probably heirs to Amway's owners. And they're probably not retiring either. You got to keep the scam going to keep the money rolling in.
You can't reason with a brainwashed person. You just can't.
You don't say how long your boyfriend has been inside the Amway cult and it's possible you don't know that answer. Most Ambots quit Amway within the first few months when they realize they got scammed and the only chance they have of making a few bucks back is by scamming others. Most people's conscience kicks in and they can't do it. 95% of Amway IBO's quit within 2 years.
As for the bullshit Amspeak propaganda your boyfriend is spouting off about bloggers who share their stories - that we didn't try hard enough - you ask him to define what he means by that. My husband spent at least 100 hours a month on all things Amway. He busted his ass phoning and prospecting everyone he knew and didn't know. He studied hard for Amway University. So like I say, ask your boyfriend to define what he means by they didn't put the work in or didn't work hard enough. Every Amway loser I ask that question to can't answer it.
As for they failed and are mad. Look at Amway's small print on how many people make money. It's a fraction of 1%. That's over 99% failure rate. Amway is a system designed for failure. And yeah we're mad we got scammed and that's why we share our stories online and hope others don't get scammed too.
OK, keep reading below and I'll answer the rest of your comments. And keep reading below that for another person who's giving you advice.
Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to help me. I think you are so strong for putting up with so much for so long. I can't get enough of your blog! I will definitely download the book now. I listened to a podcast earlier that referenced it and I definitely want to read it. What is funny about his mentor retiring is that he told me they were planning on retiring in February of this year, but now is being pushed to October (with no explanation as to why)!! So if I can't reason with him, do I just walk away? The thing is he met his mentors 2 weeks before he met me, and we have been dating since the end of October 2018. So he has been in it for about 5 months. He is all about being "All in" so I just don't see him walking away. I feel like he is too proud in that sense to see it as doomed to fail. I am also lowkey (maybe high key?) disgusted that he plans to prey on people on a daily basis to LIE to them and make money off of them, all the while giving God the praise? That's some messed up BS. I will ask him to define what "not working hard enough" means! Do you have any other questions I can ask him to derail him and bring back his critical thinking skills? I feel like there is still a chance that he is not too deep but I can't be sure. Also where can I find Amway's stat on only <1% make money? I love that you made this blog. Thank you for helping me realize I am not alone and that I am not crazy!
DeleteHi Anonymous Girlfriend. We’re happy to help you out and are glad you found us.
DeleteMerchants of Deception will keep you up all night so be prepared! When i read it I felt like I was right there in the room. I saw and heard many of the things the author described when I was in Amway meetings.
OK questions to ask. And make sure you visit Joe Cools website cause he’s more about how Amway is a bad “business” opportunity and you’ll get some good ideas there.
For starters- ask to see the profit and loss statement. Legitimate businesses keep them. Amway Ambots don’t. Also ask to see the business plan. Also most of these losers invent a fake business name and print up cards. Ask to see where they paid the state to register the name. Ask to see their business license. Ask for the tax number. Ask for anything that a real business owner would have to do.
Your boyfriend will have Amway brochures that show the compensation that is possible. It’ll be something hokey around &600/month that is mainly calculated from the difference between Amway’s retail and wholesale costs. LOL! Wholesale is still outrageous! Look for the small print on how many participants can expect to receive that. When real business owners are calculating income they don’t consider any savings on expenses on stuff they bought that might have been on sale and they got some savings. That still ain’t income!
All Ambots have to push back their retirement date LOL! They can’t retire. If they don’t keep after the downline to buy Amway shit their income dries up.
To continue: Okay, so fast forward. I asked him if he would be interested/willing to move with me for grad school which will only be two years so that our relationship can thrive. The degree he is getting will allow him to work ANYWHERE from rural areas to big towns. His position is always one that is needed. He was interviewing with multiple well-known places at the time that had all offered him jobs and told me he was very glad I asked him that because some of the positions he was taking required a 2-year contract for instance. I told him to take some time and think about it. So about two weeks later we come back to the conversation and he tells me his "mentors" told him to take a position that was the "least mentally taxing position possible" so that he could work on his "business and retire in less than 5 years." So I was like okay that's honestly concerning because he was giving up his DREAM JOB that he had been working his ass off to pursue in school to put time into this business (This is before I knew it was Amway). But I was like, "Okay, I mean I am concerned that you are giving that up, but if you think it is really in your best interest, then I will support you." So then I proceeded to ask him if this job he had chosen required a long time commitment contract and if he had considered moving. CAN YOU GUESS WHAT HE SAID? He needed to stay in the area to really "build the business." FML. So before I was like, "I mean that really sucks but I understand" (still not knowing it was Amway). But now that I found out it was Amway, it really scares me and concerns me! Because his uplines were probably the ones telling him not to move! I'm just scared that I am losing the love of my life to this horrible, lying company. He also is like "Babe, they are Christian so they can't be bad." BABE. That doesn't mean anything! I tried to show him verses in the bible about money, possessions, wealth, etc (Since we are both Christians) but he just blows it all off! I feel like nothing I say will get to him. I'm also super concerned about the misogynistic beliefs I feel like they are teaching him. About the "wife retiring first and taking care of the children while the husband works?" BARF. I'm going to graduate school to actually make a career and living for myself, not just to pop out babies and stay at home! (NO hate on stay at home moms, you all rock too!) It is just not for me. Ugh, please help. Do you have any advice?? Is there any hope for him? This is all just so disturbing to me.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - let's start with this whole Christian thing. We avoid talking about religion here, but this is general terms. Most Amway losers claim they're Christians. Well if being a Christian means being a lying cheating bastard who loves bringing misery to other people's lives and causing them emotional and financial distress - then count me out!!! All cults twist religion to suit their purposes. The Amway cult is no different than any other cult.
DeleteYou're too young but look up a couple of famous cult leaders called Charles Manson and Jim Jones. There were good documentaries about both these cults on news documentaries last year which was the 40th anniversary of Jonestown and this year is 50 years of the Manson Family murders. Amway cult leaders use the Jim Jones handbook.
Nothing brings Amway losers more happiness than destroying other people's lives. Their influence over your boyfriend is frightening and he will obey the Amway cult leaders when they tell him to end his relationship with you and what job to accept.
And yes Amway is a good old boy's club full of male chauvinist pigs.
Now you ask yourself some tough questions.
Do you want to stay in a relationship with a man who is completely controlled by the fucking assholes in his Amway upline? They will control EVERYTHING. Want to get married? Start a family? Not without getting permission from those assholes in the Amway upline first. And the answer will probably be no if it means taking money away from buying something Amway related.
Do you want to stay in a relationship with a broke Amway loser? All his money and money he doesn't have too will go to tithe the Great Amway God.
Keeping in mind the above will affect your financial situation too.
Do you want to stay with a man who will constantly put you down because you don't support his scam Amway "business"?
Do you need a liar every day in your life?
Or do you deserve better than an Amway Ambot?
Hey Anonymous Girlfriend, I just thought of more. Get your boyfriend to make an appointment with a small business loan officer at the bank to take out money for his "Amway business" and go along to the appointment for a few laughs. Can you imagine what the bank will do when he starts drawing circles for his pyramid scheme.
DeleteLegitimate small businesses should be able to get loans to help get their company off the ground.
Commissioned sales reps for a scam MLM like Amway not so much!
Maybe a financial advisor at the bank can make him understand he's in a pyramid scheme. What about a counsellor at his college? What about a life coach? I know all he wants to do is "counsel" with the fucking assholes in his Amway upline but you need to get him in front of a disinterested third party who can be objective. The banker is a good start because he'll get laughed out of there.
Good luck by the way with whatever you decide. I urge you to take the path of happiness. And that means steering clear of anything Amway.
Dear Anonymous at 2:24 and 2:25 PM --
ReplyDeleteThis is a really rotten situation. Your boyfriend seems to be intelligent and successful, but now he's planning to throw all of that over to join a mind-control cult -- one that will steer him away from a promising career and a potential wife who will herself be successful.
And for what? For AMWAY? Good grief, this is scary. Amway is nothing but a nickel-and-dime racket!
You've done much to help him see the light, but he seems to be deeply brainwashed at this point. Who exactly are this "selfless Christian couple" who are supposedly helping him get on his feet? I'd try to find out more about them. They sound like the typical Amway vampires.
It's true that most persons who join Amway drop out fairly quickly, and this might be the case for your boyfriend. If he's actually intelligent, he's bound to realize that there is no real profit in the Amway racket for 99% of those who join it.
Its' clear that his up-line is secretly advising him to break with you. This is par for the course with Amway. They absolutely HATE anyone in a person's life who might counteract their propaganda, and they will work relentlessly to cause a split between you and your boyfriend.
Anna,
DeleteThank you soooooo much for replying. I am honestly wrecked right now. I've been reading your blog for the past two weeks, and I honestly never post in forums but this has been such a distresser in my life. I'm wondering if I should honestly break up with him? I don't want to be apart of ScAmway the rest of my life! I might be catastrophizing, but I'm so freaked out by this that its making me want to walk away. EVEN THOUGH I LOVE HIM. I asked to meet his mentors and he said they are "really busy" but that they said they would like to meet me too. However, I haven't heard anything back on meeting up with them yet. I want him to see the light, but I've come to the heart wrenching realization that I probably won't be able to. He doesn't have any downlines yet (at least that is what he told me), but he said he is going to be giving this business "everything he has got" once we graduate in five weeks. So I feel an incredible burden as a result. Either route I seem to find that it will end in a break up unless I submit my mind to Amway, which God help me if I ever do that (God help us all!!!). Will meeting his mentors ASAP help? Do I need to have a second intervention with him now that I've gathered more resources? I'm thinking of just presenting it as that "I don't expect you to change, but I have a personal problem with Amway and that it would affect our future and where you spend your time." Thoughts? Thank you soooooo much for your help. TBH I should be doing homework right now but I can't get my mind around this.
I agree Anonymous. She's in a really rotten situation. I've been there. Thousands if not millions of other women over the decades have been there too. Amway takes sweet, loving men, who are seemingly intelligent and brainwashes them into angry, sneering broke Amway losers.
DeleteAnd those Amway cult leaders want to destroy this man's life by steering him away from a good career and loving successful wife just cause nothing brings Amway losers more happiness than destroying other people's lives.
Hi Again Anonymous Girlfriend. The distress and anguish you’re going through is the same as everyone goes through when someone they love is inside the Amway cult. Everyone has different levels of how much they can take and whether or not they can wait it out keeping in mind the majority of Ambots quit within 2 years.
DeleteI do feel really bad for you.
That old Amway bullshit line about how busy they are and will see if they can fit you into their schedule like they’re doing you a big favor has been around for decades.
Do your homework. Don’t let Amway fuck up your life.
Let me say something about Amway and religion.
ReplyDeleteAmway is not Christian AT ALL. Not one single bit.
All that Amway does is push something called "The Prosperity Gospel," a completely bogus fake cult that preaches you will become rich and prosperous if you are a Christian. God will shower money on you, and make your life comfortable. And the sign of being a good Christian is to be filthy rich, like an Amway Diamond.
This absurd "Prosperity Gospel" is false and pernicious, and has nothing to with what is said in the Bible. It has been been condemned by every traditional form of Christianity, whether Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. It is simply greed posturing as religious piety.
When these fat-assed Amway scum meet their Maker, they will have a lot to answer for.
When you’re an Ambot you devote your life to worshiping and tithing the Great Amway God.
Delete*apologies in advance for major f-bombs... Lots of frustrations right now*
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for having this blog... It brings me some relief knowing there's other in my shoes. I am in hysterics over trying to keep my boyfriend from joining... He is actually a coworker of mine and is young (25), handsome, bright and driven, and that's exactly why he was as targeted. Targeted by a co-worker might I add... A 20 year old super Christian co-worker that has grown up very sheltered
Our co-worker and his sister joined a few months ago and they wouldn't stop bugging my bf about it. I hear Tim (the co-worker) constantly trying to get other co-workers to buy products during work hours which is a nuisance, but it's nothing near as bad as what he is now doing to my bf. They were friends so he was an easy target... Of course my bf would trust him. Well my bf is from Peru and doesn't know about how our scams here work... And these people are Savage sharks. Everyone I know has had some type of encounter with this, myself included. Once I lost my job, this scamway friend really got his claws into the bf. I already saved him one time from meeting up with the guys sister for "coffee". But weeks later he met up with some older guy that's been a "long-time friend of their family"... I'm sure it's a church involvement. He told me about it, I asked what the name of the company was and he said he didn't know. Then, he told me he was meeting the guy again the next week. I hated hearing how he was so enticed by the guy saying he makes all kinds of money (what stranger tells you how much they make in a year?!)
So i showed him all about MLMs from research online, and he seemed convinced it isn't a good way to go. But yet, he met up with the guy again. I pleaded to him not to sign anything, and that my *one* question is "what is the company name"... Well he came back and didn't have it. Ha. Ha. He said he wasn't sure, but still curious by everything he's hearing, I'm just shaking my head the whole time... Then he said there's an event coming up! Ooooh... How official... So I said I'll go too so I can really see what's going on...
Well after some time he decided this was stressing him out too much so he's not even going to go, meaning I've done my job by keeping him away... We hadn't talked about it since. Except today he tried to hide from me that he is going to the event. I said fine, I'll go too... And he's saying "uh I didn't ask them if it was ok for you to go too, but I'll try asking" giving me all that crap. I have been fighting so hard to show him facts about this terrible devil of a company,and yet he still is too curious Not to go. He works right next to the scamway friend, 10 hrs a day, 6 days a week... And his friend won't give him the fucking name? Oh but he claims he's going to know the name once he goes, and promises not to sign anything. Now what legit company, meets you for coffee twice, sells to you a most glamorous lifestyle, whilst having no office(!) And won't even give you the fucking name.
This makes me really question my boyfriend's intelligence... It's scaring the shit out of me. I didn't know he could be fooled so easily. I will never be that desperate to be involved in something so evil. I feel like he's a pure soul and the devil just won. But he promises not to sign anything Tonite... Ha. I have been fighting this For us, all out of love and care... And I tell him this constantly "I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at them, and you should be too... They don't give two shits about you, they know you have potential to make them money cause you're a hard worker... And They are scam artists!" I'm stressing the fuck out over it... And he is still going. I can't believe it.
What is left that I could possibly do to prevent him from joining this cult?!
Hey Unknown. I'm glad you found us. We drop more F bombs around here than we could ever count when it comes to describing Amway, their products, and the losers on their commissioned sales staff!
DeleteFirst off, sorry to hear about your situation and that some evil Ambots are getting their clutches into your boyfriend. You got it. You know Amway is a scam and you'll lose your money if you get involved. It's really fucking embarrassing to admit that you're involved in the Amway scam that's why these losers are avoiding saying the company name. I've been to many Amway meetings where the A word was never mentioned and if the A word came up it was not until later in the evening.
If you work for a scam company yeah you're too embarrassed to name the shady outfit. If you work for a legitimate company you probably have no problem saying where you work.
Big difference right.
Your boyfriend is a highly desirable target to be recruited into the Amway cult. His age, he's never heard of Amway and he's an immigrant.
The Ambots have already convinced your boyfriend that you are a negative unsupportive unchristian dreamstealer and have told him not to talk to you about Scamway. You are the voice of reason. You must be removed from his life. If he signs up, if he pays money - they will do everything in their power to convince him to leave you. Nothing brings Amway losers more happiness than destroying other peoples relationships.
But good on you for trying to get into some of these meetings and the major function coming up is Amway Family Reunion. You can ask the tough questions. Like what is the name of the company! Like how tough is that to answer?! It's like when you ask someone if they own a car and they struggle on how to answer that. Like go outside, look in your driveway. Do you see a car? Report your answer!
OK I wrote too much. More in the next comment box!
Part 2 to Unknown:
DeleteOK let's talk about you. You need to protect yourself if your boyfriend gets sucked into Scamway because you'll be in for a whole shitload of financial and emotional distress as your nice sweet boyfriend turns into a nasty evil ugly sneering Amway Ambot.
You don't mention if you live together and share expenses.
You said you're not working at the same place but I don't know if that means you've found work somewhere else. If not, you could be dependent on him financially. But if he gets sucked into this cult all his money will go to tithing the Great Amway God. Ambots are counselled by the fucking assholes in their Amway upline to skip paying the rent and other bills so they can use the money to buy Amway products and go to Amway brainwashing conferences. Stupid hunh?
You need to protect yourself and get your ducks in a row in case you need to proceed.
Are you joint with him on a credit card? Call the credit card company, tell them you lost your card and you don't want to be joint anymore or you want to cancel the card. You'll still have to pay off whatever is currently owing, but if he gets his own credit card and runs up Amway debt you won't be responsible for paying that back. So make sure you know how to do that if you have a joint card you can put that into action without delay!
Same thing if you have a joint bank account. Get your name off it. Close the account. The fucking assholes in the Amway upline will "counsel" him to get overdraft protection on his account so he can have available funds to buy Amway shit. You don't need to be in the hole jointly with him thanks to Amway.
Check your lease if you're month to month it won't matter as much. You might need an exit plan. Do you have family you can move in with? And I mean without him. Because your apartment will become an Amway Ambot crash pad. These Amway losers will sit around talking about how they'll all be rich in 2 to 5 years and they'll laugh at everyone who doesn't believe them.
So right now if he gets sucked into the Amway cult, you need to protect yourself and your money from these evil Ambots who want to steal it. I just want you to take care of yourself in the worst case scenario. If he signs up to Amway you will not be important to him anymore. You won't even be on the top 5 of the most important things in his life. A box of Amway soap will be more important to him than you. You deserve better than to come in below a box of soap.
That's worst case scenario.
I hope it works out for you and he doesn't sign up for this scam. But Amway cult leaders are some of the best con artists out there. They'll probably close the sale when you're not around.
Good luck with all this.