Tuesday, August 30, 2016

Ben Escapes! Buh Bye Amway!

Thanks to Ben for sharing his Amway story.

When I got out of college last year, I got a job in telemarketing (yes I was one of those people for a brief period, and it actually does work...unbelievably). When I was there I met a nice young man a little older than I (I believe he was 29 and I am 27). The rest of the people at the job were either from halfway houses, or career job hoppers. The churn rate for the business was roughly 50-70% of new employees every month, and then there were some older folks that had been there much longer.

Getting back to the point at hand.

The guy I met was unlike the rest, because he always had a smile on his face, had genuine enthusiasm for life, and above all else, ambition. We gravitated towards each other, because we were so different from the rest and had expectations of making a great life for ourselves. He eventually brought up an analogy when we were hanging out, and I had no idea how loaded (set up for an affirmative response) it truly was. He asked me, "If you had to shovel shit for 3 years and didn't paid, would you do it if you were paid $250,000 a year after that for the rest of your life." My immediate thought was yes, and saw the parallels of that with going to college, because that to me was like shoveling shit and hoping to get a $50,000 plus career starting out. This is when the coffee meetings began to occur and our friendship went into a weird cross section of creepy personal information mixed with business dreams.

He made me read a book from Robert Kiyosaki called Businesses of the 21st Century, and asked if I had ever heard of this BILLIONAIRE before. I said no, because 1. He is not a billionaire, and 2. Anyone outside of Amway or other MLM's wouldn't know about this fly.

After reading the book, we met again and I was a little shaken. I didn't learn anything business related from the book, and his writing was atrocious. He told me I would understand more once we went to see a meeting where Robert's tools were implemented. We ended up going to a weird church in the middle of nowhere and saw Amway diamond Mike Carrol (to preface this Mike Carrol is completely uneducated and worthless).

We went to the meeting and Mike Carrol did an ego massage that was surrounded with cheers as everyone rejoiced at his wonderful success and lifestyle. I could've given two shits...I was here to learn how to make money. He finally got to the business plan in the last 10 minutes of the 2 hour meeting and it consisted of circles and purchasing from your store. I was more confused than ever and was sure I was witnessing a pyramid scheme. The products were completely unnecessary and the sole source of income generation was recruiting 12 circles and then teaching them to each recruit 12 circles...clearly not mathematically probable and eventually an impossibility. I have to go back for a moment and mention that he paid cash supposedly for everything, but at the end he talked about the Amway credit card...clearly nobody else noticed a very big issue. He reiterated the pyramid idea by suggesting he gets paid every time one of his down line makes a "shwipee" with their credit card...clearly he isn't moving any product they are just unlucky enough to be below him.

I told my friend I still don't understand the business, and he said how could you not understand...that was it. I began to feel slimy and used...but I didn't stop there. He encouraged me to go to a meeting at his house.

We went to his house and his upline held a meeting. The meeting was strange, because everyone still had to dress up as we sat in his living room with a pen and paper (completely unnecessary). His upline was an eagle which means he was essentially at the bottom like the rest of us, and I was in the room with his entire team. He described how wonderful the business was for him and his wife, and they were planning on retiring next year (officially this year, and they are completely full of bovine excrement...BS as the lament term). I asked about the numbers previously from my friend, and he said that is not important...WTF he kept saying I was going to be his business partner and yet he doesn't know numbers!??!?! His upline however, was supposed to know all of that stuff...he explained that the costs were split in such a way that if I diverted a small portion of my monthly income towards Amway, I essentially wouldn't notice that it was gone and eventually I would get a grand return. Sorry folks, that isn't how business works...

I wish I could say the story ended there, but it doesn't...I did end up attending an FED last October, but I won't go into details about that because this post has already gotten massively long.

Coming full circle...the reason why I think it is a cult as well is, A. The ridiculous need for business attire, B. The bizarre literature they have you read and the edification of people beyond their actual value, C. The lack of a coherent business plan, and the inability to distinguish numbers, and D. The fact that they use diversion tactics to answer meaningful questions, and or not answer them all but rather send you to a different meeting or a different person.


  1. Hey Anna,

    Thank you for posting my story, and I figured it would only be fair that I update it now since it became an official post on your blog.

    THE FED (Freedom Enterprise Days)!!! Can we first start with the name? How ridiculous is it for them to use the term freedom with their enterprise...? Anyways...back to the story...The first day was grueling. I had just completed a full work day, and then I had to battle with traffic to get to the show. The "CONference" started at 5 p.m., but I wasn't able to get there until 6. The stadium was enormous, and I heard there were about 8,000 people in attendance. HOLY COW!!! The scene was electric as people ranging from 18-80 were all dressed in their business suits and ready to engage in the learning.

    The first speaker I saw was ELECTRIC! He brought history alive, and told us about how far we have strayed from the Constitution. I love history, and this guy was TERRIFIC... at making Amway sound like the answer for our journey away from the traditions started by the founding fathers.

    Then I heard the first diamond speaker...

    I can't remember who they were, and quite frankly it doesn't matter, because the diamonds are just different shapes and sizes of the same brainwashed human being. The diamond came out to a thunderous applause, and a video played of the most extravagant lifestyle. There were vacations, planes, cars, mansions, love, and GOD! The speech was bland a filled with fluff about the prototypical rising from the dumpster to the penthouse, and how they couldn't have been where they were without the business...basically another ego massage similar to the Mike Carrol event.

    Then the show continued similarly to the first diamond with about 10 more diamonds coming out and dragging on until MIDNIGHT! Ugh I was pooped...but I had a long drive home, and I had to stay pumped because I was about to do it ALL DAY SATURDAY!

    Saturday begins at 9 a.m. and I'm on less than 5 hours of sleep after a close to 18 hour day...I'm not feeling the buzz (Dateline does a great documentary and they talk about sleep deprivation). Sure enough, the day starts just like the last one ended, MORE DIAMONDS! At this point, I'm going in and out of the building, and I'm hoping to learn any secrets to success from anyone...and that's when I learned about cross-lining. YOU ARE NEVER TO DISCUSS BUSINESS WITH MEMBERS OF A DIFFERENT ORGANIZATION...excuse my french, but what a crock of shit. We were all listening to diamonds and other ranks from other organizations, so why not listen to the ground floor troops. This business is supposed to be "easy and duplicatable" yet talking to others could screw everything up? Anyways...I went back inside and took more notes on the inside of eyelids until lunch time.

    1. Hey Ben thanks for coming back. Excellent recounting of Amway FED. Actually have another post of yours about FED coming up soon but these are perfect. We'll rerun your comments here too in another month as it gets closer. Got to pile on lost of keywords and information for the Ambots who are desperately searching. See all they tell you at Amway meetings is its a not to be missed event and other shit that says nothing. But then when we post about what really goes on angry ambots show up here spewing their negativity and anger.

      Yup sounds like nothing has changed at Amway FED since the last one I went to but then. Itching ever changes in Amway except it gets more expensive for the Ambots. And as you noted sleep deprivation is huge. Common cult tactic. When people are tired they're easier to brainwash.

  2. Lunch time was...3 HOURS LONG!!! How unnecessary...I've never been given 3 hours for lunch before, and I certainly didn't need that much time in BFE (Bum F*** Egypt) or wherever I was, but I was stuck with it. I hung out and met some interesting people from Oklahoma (which is real dedication since we were in California), and then I realized I still had 2 HOURS LEFT...UGH!!!

    The show continued, and the excitement level got turned up! They had a Christian rock group play a little concert, and then I got to see a Diamond crowning...talk about over the top. The couple (Trevor and Lexi Baker) walked down a gigantic red carpet as peons from their organization rushed to the surrounding gates to blow kisses and touch them...it was like watching the frickin royal family in England. They had their two lovely twin girls with them as they continued to the stage where their parents (Glen and Joya Baker...executive diamonds) were waiting. They had a lovely speech for their children, and then their children completed their transformation with another exaggerated fluffy, emotional, motivational speech...wonderful. After they were done, it was about 9 o'clock which gave plenty of time for more diamonds to do their diamond things on stage until MIDNIGHT AGAIN!!!

    I told my sponsor after that day that I would probably not be attending the Sunday show, and he was not having it! He said Sunday was the most important or something, and I replied, I was going to be late because I didn't feel comfortable attending the religious opening ceremony. He again suggested that I would be missing something critical and guilted me into coming...which I'm glad he did.

    SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY (Football reference)...Started at the lovely hour of 9 AM again, and that was when I got to see the most magical person of them all...THE PREACHER! This guy was in his 70's, but he was prancing around like he was in his 20's and he was lively! The guy was amazing as he talked about this being the greatest business ever while mixing in some notes about god, and then he did something incredible. He got people to DONATE to him! HOLY COW! We were at a supposed "business" conference to learn about making money, and he got people to GIVE their money away...OH THE IRONY! He finished off by having everyone come close to the stage and stretch out their arm to send magical energy to a person dying of terminal cancer...he was a real life TELEVANGELIST!!! Check that off the ol' bucket list. (For the record I have nothing against religion, and don't care what you want to practice, but this was really weird and not like any church service I had attended before...)

    Then the rest of the day...It was pure bleh as people from lower ranks got to cross the stage which was a "goal" apparently and got to rehearse their diamond speeches for the future. This went on until the very end, and then I got to unlock my new achievement... (video game reference) FED COMPLETED!!!

    Never would I ever wish that upon an unwilling participant, and I hope that this magic show finds a fiery end.

    1. Ben LOL on the Amway cult leader preacher who passes a bucket around to suck more money out of his Ambot victims. He might even make enough to buy a steak dinner later on. LOL!

      Everything in Amway is creepy. And I love the way you described it.

  3. Ben's story is very significant, for it demonstrates something really at the core of the entire Amway racket, and indeed of every other MLM racket.


    Everything that Ben tells us about how the Amway freaks responded to him is positive proof of this. They won't give you a straight answer. They place an absurd value on "meetings." They say contradictory things. They make you read wretchedly written books by Kiyosaki or some other moron. They refuse to discuss actual numbers. And they think that their hyped-up enthusiasm will rub off onto you, and make you want to join.

    All of this is a REFUSAL TO BE RATIONAL. In fact, Amway freaks are constantly denigrating reason, saying stupid things like "If the dream is big enough, the facts don't matter!" Anyone who can say or believe that is dangerously close to being delusional.

    This is why Evangelicals are so big in Amway. They are used to following "faith" rather than reason.

    1. Anonymous - good description.

      Refusal to be rational.

      I'm sure ambots says that all the time about me LOL!

      And good point about the evangelicals. You'll see Ben also mentioned them in his above comment. But yeah you go to any Amway brainwashing conference like this and you really feel you're sitting under a big white tent in the deep south listening to an evangelical preacher.

      Except when it comes right down to it I'd rather be sitting under that tent instead of listening to Amway cult leaders.

  4. Why they demean jobs is the concept that you don't have to work for boss but be the boss of your own business. Many MLM have the slogan of "be your own boss in your business."

    1. Anonymous - I'd say most MLM partipants don't have what it takes to be real business owners or be their own boss so these cult leaders dangle that phrase over them. Helps sign up suckers.

  5. Sometimes, the comments cannot be seen and the user cannot post any comment.

    1. Its like now you see them now you don't. It's like all or nothing around here sometimes.

  6. Ben's recount of FED and the brainwashing meetings that lead up to it are eerily similar to what I experienced in the late 80's and early 90's. The same scamming Diamonds that were in my WWDB upline are still scamming Ambots into thinking they are something special when in fact they are just scam artists profiting from the sale of tools and functions. The upline Exec Diamonds, David and Debbie Shores went bankrupt
    http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/wwdb/shores_foreclosure.pdf. And Greg And Laurie Duncan who spoke about how they bought everything with cash went bankrupt and lost their house to foreclosure http://www.amquix.info/duncan_bankrupt.html. All our other upline, Emerald, Eagle etc have all left the business and my down line all left soon after me. It is incredible how after so many year, not much has changed including the kingpins running the cult.

    Thanks for this blog Anna, you are probably helping more people than you'll ever know.

    **Former WWDB Lemming**

    1. David and Debbie Shores go BANKRUPT.

      Greg and Laurie Duncan go BANKRUPT.

      Would you take financial advice from losers like this?

    2. Hey Lemming! ong time no hear. Like years! Nice to hear from you again! Yup I still remember when it was news about Diamonds declaring bankruptcy and foreclosure. At every Scamway meeting we attended we heard that Diamonds pay for EVERYTHING in cash - houses, cars, everything. I fail to understand how someone who bought a house with cash can get foreclosed on because if they paid in full for a house in cash there'd be no mortgage. Likewise any other lying scamming Amway Diamond if they paid for everything in cash then they're not using credit cards or taking out loans therefore why do they have to declare bankruptcy. Bunch of lying Amway assholes.

      Yup this blog has been a good thing for people who need help and support when it comes to dealing with Amway and Ambots and it's a bad thing for Amway losers because it's so high up in the search engines. LOL!

    3. I totally agree with you Anonymous. Who would take financial advice from people who can't handle their own finances to the point of bankruptcy and foreclosure. Only Amway losers would take advice from those kinds of losers! LOL!

    4. Interesting too if you look at the one foreclosure notice, the note was originated in 5/2000. But the curative measures for the default say that payments must be received on the balance due, plus interest of 11.5%. I had a note originate in 2000 and my interest rate was nowhere near 11.5% (it was an election year and rates are low and stable during these). Not only did they use credit when they claimed they did not, they also used it so much their credit score landed them a rate of 11.5 % on a mortgage??? This is about a 5 point premium over good rates back then. They did not just use credit, they used it heavily. Amazing how the false claims of success vanish like a fart in a tornado when you look under the hood. These people lie about so much.

    5. Anonymous - yeah the lower your credit score the higher your interest rate is. And if your credit score is really shitty most lenders won't take a risk and deny the application. A lot of Ambots must have that problem. They either paynreallynhigh interest rates or they don't get a loan at all. And I also know someone who got a mortgage around that time but they had really shitty credit and paid a higher mortgage rate than that, I think 14% maybe more. No big surprise they defaulted and got foreclosed about 6 months later.

  7. Ben - seems your experience at an FED repulsed you as much I it did me. I went to an FED in Richmond VA (my "upline" paid for it) and it was literally the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen.

    An arena full of suckers, and vampires making speeches. I was taken to meet some of the diamonds making these speeches, and I was struck by how transparent they were. They were ripping people off and they knew it, yet have achieved an incredible cognitive disconnect from this fact. That or they are just shameless pricks.

    1. Anonymous - the gremlins just ate my response to you! Anyway I said excellent abbreviated version to sum up Amway FED. Feel free to share more about those shameless Amway pricks.

  8. I only met the executive diamond (Jimmy Head) that was in my upline and it was for a very brief moment. He moved through my group as though he was the president. He smiled and shook my hand, then he said a couple of words and moved along. It was weird, and I felt like I wasn't even on his radar, even though I was going to be working "underneath" him. I was clearly an insignificant fly.

    I have seen and heard about how uplines have no qualms about ruining downline's lives. You would have to be pretty soulless to make it that far through Amway. The cognitive disconnect also isn't surprising because they have been doing this crap for so long. If anything, they are probably extremely desensitized to their nonsense and it becomes routine.

    1. Ben - he was only pretending to be the president? Usually these cult leaders pretend to be Mick Jagger or some other rock star! LOL! And you figured it out fast: you are insignificant to him unless you bring in huge sales or sign up dozens of downline. Pretty much a mathematical impossibility. The abuse from Amway upline is horrendous and something we focus on a lot in this blog. The Mway upline is out to destroy as many people as they can with emotional and financial distress. Sick bastards that they are.


Comments are moderated but we publish just about everything. Even brainwashed ambots who show up here to accuse us of not trying hard enough and that we are lazy, quitters, negative, unchristian dreamstealers. Like we haven’t heard that Amspeak abuse from the assholes in our upline!

If your comment didn’t get published it could be one of these reasons:
1. Is it the weekend? We don’t moderate comments on weekends. Maybe not every day during the week either. Patience.
2. Racist/bigoted comments? Take that shit somewhere else.
3. Naming names? Public figures like politicians and actors and people known in Amway are probably OK – the owners, Diamonds with CDs or who speak at functions, people in Amway’s publicity department who write press releases and blogs. Its humiliating for people to admit their association with Amway so respect their privacy if they’re not out there telling everyone about the love of their life.
4. Gossip that serves no purpose. There are other places to dish about what Diamonds are having affairs or guessing why they’re getting divorced. If you absolutely must share that here – don’t name names. I get too many nosy ambots searching for this. Lets not help them find this shit.
5. Posting something creepy anonymously and we can’t track your location because you’re on a mobile device or using hide my ass or some other proxy. I attracted an obsessed fan and one of my blog administrators attracted a cyberstalker. Lets keep it safe for everyone. Anonymous is OK. Creepy anonymous and hiding – go fuck yourselves!
6. Posting something that serves no purpose other than to cause fighting.
7. Posting bullshit Amway propaganda. We might publish that comment to make fun of you. Otherwise take your agenda somewhere else. Not interested.
8. Notice how this blog is written in English? That's our language so keep your comments in English too. If you leave a comment written in another language then we either have to use Google translate to put it into English so everyone can understand what you wrote or we can hit the Delete button. Guess which one is easier for us to do?
9. We suspect you're a troublemaking Amway asshole.
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