I decided to check it out. When I put “Artistry cosmetics” into Google my blog is #12. If I add Euromonitor to the search criteria its #5. The top page hits ahead of my blog are Amway propaganda pages about Artistry and a couple of IBO’s looking for customers. Or that’s my best guess. I didn’t actually click on any of those links. I’ll let IBOFB do that and report back if I guessed wrong in case he thinks I care!
I decided to try Google in a few other countries and chose countries with languages I understand: Canada , United Kingdom , Mexico , and Spain
OK now I’m sure IBOFB is going to double check those countries Google search engines and come back to announce that my page has slipped to #15 or whatever and say that he checked a couple of random countries like Siberia and Iraq and my post about Artistry isn’t even on the radar.
As I already said I think some hits are IBOs looking for product information and then they leave when they see my blog wasn’t what they were looking for but many visitors stay awhile reading my other posts. That tells me IBOs or their disenchanted spouses are doing what I did and looking for information to find out if the speakers from the stage were lying when they said Artistry is one of the top 5 cosmetics companies in the world.
If you read my previous blog about Artistry and the following comments IBOFB shows up and says that according to Euromonitor Artistry is one of the top 5 prestige cosmetics in the world. Well I’d never heard of Euromonitor until then and thats probably the case for many people on this side of the Atlantic . In fact I thought it was a magazine but it turns out to be a market research firm. Perhaps Amway should have used an American market research firm whose name would be familiar to people on this side of the pond.
I never ever heard a Platinum, Emerald, or Diamond speaker say Artistry is one of the top 5 “prestige” cosmetics. They always said Artistry is the top 5 best selling or top 5 best in the world.
After IBOFB gave us a few good laughs about how Artistry is in the top 5 prestige cosmetics companies the comments turned to what women are looking for when buying cosmetics. No one considers “prestige” when buying makeup. More important considerations are price, selection, and quality. That’s how women select their cosmetics. We like to get good value for our money.
Bottom line is it doesn’t matter to me where I end up on the Google search engine. My blog serves as healing tool for me to vent about our sponsor and upline and the financial and emotional distress that goes hand in hand with being involved in the cult but I wonder how Amway feels about my blog being right behind the top hits about Artistry propaganda. A lot of people seeking information click on my link and see:
a. I prefer Avon
b. Artistry is too high priced
c. the Forbes list of the world’s top 10 selling cosmetics
d. a bunch of funny comments about prestige makeup
If the readers are not too brainwashed that gives them something to think about. Namely they discover the speakers from the stage lied to them.
If there isn't a single woman on the planet who looks for and buys prestige cosmetics, why do the prestige cosmetics companies stay in business?
ReplyDeletewe all had a laugh at ibofb when he mentioned the stupid euro trash paper and prestige products. He loves thinking he knows everything even though ibofb never put on cosmetics or know anything about female makeup.
ReplyDeleteIt was kind of funny when IBOFB was asking us if we'd put the eye cream on right and gave directions. Hmmm I think most women start trying eye cream when they turn 20! We read the instructions the first time and after that I think we've got it. Its kind of like giving instructions on applying lipstick to women who've been wearing it for 20 or 30 years! I was at an Artistry seminar where the woman speaker did give instructions on the eye cream because she said a man came up to her and said the product didn't work. Notice this was a man not a woman. So she asks him to show her how he's applying it. He holds it up and squirts it in his eyes like he's applying eye drops. OK so maybe that's only funny to women!
ReplyDeleteTex there is a company called Prestige Cosmetics so you gotta wonder why Amway/Artistry wants to use that phrase when it could cause confusion. That's why the speakers never say "prestige" from the stage otherwise all the women would be running out and buying the competitor's product! Its all part of the deception.
ReplyDeletetoo funny amway men using eye cream just to get pv
ReplyDeletegood thing for those men that amway never came out with their own brand of prestige tampons god knows what men would have done for extra pv
Artistry cosmetics are a great example of how the upline can warp reality. The bottom line is that it is just another personal use item that can generate PV and I would bet a large percentage of Amway's sales in this sector are for IBO personal use because once again how could anyone possibly sell this overpriced crap to actual customers.
ReplyDeleteHere are Some Actual Sales Stats:
According to GCI, a Global Cosmetics Industry Magazine, owned by Carol Stream, Ill.-based Allured Publishing, in 2006 the cosmetics industry generated approximately $230 billion in global sales. According to scribd.com Asia and the Pacific Rim generated 80% of Alticor’s beauty sales of 1.45 Billion, placing them at #21 world wide. Note: Avon is #6 in the world at 5.2 Billion.
Here's the link to a Forbes Magazine article.It is funny how there isn't even a mention of Artistry Cosmetics.
http://www.forbes.com/2006/02/08/best-selling-cosmetics_cx_me_0209feat_ls.html
** Former WWDB Lemming **
Anonymous at 5:45 - its cheaper to go to Costco and buy tampons than buy from Amway. Hell its cheaper to go to 7-11!
ReplyDeleteNow lets just sit back and wait for IBOFB to show up and talk about the prestige tampons and how he conducted his own investigation into tampon comparison!
Thanks Anonymous Lemming! Just the type of information Amway doesn't want their followers to find out about.
ReplyDeleteFYI my buddy from Ada was in this morning reading this post. I bet the next thing they did was a Google search!
Im sure they have done a google search and found your site moving up the list. Amway & the diamonds just pay some dorky sob like ibofb some more money to put up more retarded pro amway sites so hopefully people wont notice yours.
ReplyDeleteLOL, that's IBO justification. That Amway stuff is better or more concentrated thus worth the price. While quality and concentration can be debatable, consumers look at the bottom line - the price. It is why Walmart has hundreds of billions of dollars in sales and why Amway doesn't.
ReplyDeleteAnna, im sure someday we'll see kids of ex ambots making blogs. Telling everybody how bloody lame their parents where. We do need some more spouse making blogs like yours.
ReplyDeleteJoecool I bet Walmart sells more cosmetics than Amway does! The #1 selling item at Walmart is bananas. Maybe Amway should try that market! Oh wait I'm sure IBOFB will show up and say Amway does sell prestige bananas at the from the farm website for $5 apiece!
ReplyDeleteColin I'd like to read a blog by the kid of a former or current IBO and see what they're really thinking and what they went through and what it was like having a parent more consumed with spending time on Amway activities than the family. Will be interesting reading.
ReplyDeleteId love to hear from kids of a ex diamonds. Where they tell us scummy they think their parents are,the lies,etc
ReplyDeletecolin,
ReplyDeleteEuromonitor is an independent organization, and appears to be VERY legitimate: http://www.euromonitor.com Therefore, ibofb doesn't have to have any experience with applying cosmetics to make these statements. This is one of those issues where you trash others for no supportable reason.
Anna,
Wouldn't applying the cream to the eyes burn painfully?
Actually, Amway uses the term "prestige brand," and I find it HIGHLY unlikely an Artistry seminar would cause someone to buy a brand called prestige cosmetics, even if that term was used. Instead, they would go to the Amway website and find the Artistry brand. This is another one of those issues where you trash others for no supportable reason. Also, I've heard plenty of IBO and Amway speakers use the word "prestige" from stage.
I doubt Euromonitor would refer to Artistry as a prestige brand if the quality were low.
The Forbes article did not focus on prestige brand cosmetics, it was looking at all quality levels, although this 5 year old article did state the potential for growth was in the higher end lines.
I doubt Amway or the upline pays ibofb anything, he is too big of a jerk.
Amway has flatly stated they are not trying to become another Walmart.
Anna,
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't you provide a direct answer to the first post in this thread?
Tex did somebody piss in your corn flakes this morning?
ReplyDeleteYou are all a bunch of 'it is better I don't say it'.
ReplyDeleteAh - long time no Amway speak! Our brainwashed buddy from Scarborough Canada has resurfaced! How come you keep stopping in to read my post about how our Platinum was screwing over Amway? Getting tips? Good for you! You can do it too!
ReplyDeleteNobody pissed in my cornflakes this morning, or any morning. I ask question to get to the truth, and if you don't want to answer a simple question, I'll assume you're smoking your corn flakes.
ReplyDeleteThe facts are that Asia and the Pacific Rim generated 80% of Alticor’s beauty sales of 1.45 Billion, placing them at #21 world wide (no doubt most of this is personal use). Note: Avon is #6 in the world at 5.2 Billion. I doubt Artistry is in the top 50 in North America. What bothers me is when IBO's and especially big pins make statements that are clearly false or over exaggerated and they are able to do this unchallenged most of the time because Amway does not release specific RETAIL sales results.
ReplyDeleteThey make the same unsubstantiated claims on stage that they did when I was an IBO almost 17 years ago.
****Former WWDB Lemming****
I know if im female id rather buy Lancôme, Estée Lauder, Clinique and Chanel. They are also listed on the Euromonitor International as prestige products also . We both live in the real world and know the only reason you probably used artistry was cause your ambot hubby needed so much sales volume to meet some lame qualification. Most people when looking for a prestige or pricey product generally look for a name brand.
ReplyDeleteAnna:
That's why the speakers never say "prestige" from the stage otherwise all the women would be running out and buying the competitor's product! Its all part of the deception.
colin,
ReplyDeleteThe idea is the other brands don't pay you back for your use, your retail customer use, or your downline and their customers' use. Geesh....
As I said above, I heard the word prestige used numerous times, because it was always used in the context of Artistry cosmetics, so the chance of someone running out and buying another brand is slim. Double geesh....
The difference with amway products is that you are expected to use them exclusively.
ReplyDeleteA McDonald's franchisee does not eat exlusively at McD's.
Since he actually OWNS his own franchise, he can eat whereever the hell he wants, and not be looking over his shoulder hoping his upline doesn't catch him.
Not so the IBO. The Better Life Institute foods actually means Better Like It or else institute.
Have you tasted that crap? yikes
I was so disappointed that I had to use Artistry when I got in. No one tells you that upfront. Make-up is a very personal thing for women and yet it's we who have to switch.
Come up with a lame-ass amway beer that the androids have to drink and let the howling begin.
Anonymous has hit it on the head that makeup is a personal thing for women. I doubt that Amway sells much of Artistry products to women who are not IBO's. To put it personally I found Artistry to be 3 to 4 times more expensive than comparable products. As for as eye shadow they did not have the pastels that I prefer. I found the lipstick colors too dark. In other words the color selection on their products sucked as far as I was concerned. Another woman might feel differently and be excited about their colors. Bottom line you can find similar colors as offered by the Artistry line in other top cosmetic companies for better prices. Just because you're paying top dollar for something doesn't make it a better product.
ReplyDeleteMcDonald's also isn't an MLM.
ReplyDeleteBLI hasn't been associated with Amway for several years, so your lack of current knowledge is noted.
I don't have a personal opinion of Artistry, as I have never used it, but it is good enough for Miss America: http://www.artistrybeauty.com/missamerica/
Oh, dear. My lack of current knowledge is 'noted.' Alas!
ReplyDeleteAnd Miss America can kiss my grits. Any bets she's paid to promote it?
Admit it, Tex, there are some things where your lack of knowledge is 'noted.'
Anon,
ReplyDeleteMost people are paid to promote things. What's your point?
Too bad you haven't named a single thing where I have a lack of knowledge, while I've pointed out numerous areas of yours! LOL
Hey Tex,
ReplyDeleteWho cares about the facts....Amway is a Fucking CULT!
And guess what else, I used Artistry make-up for almost 5 years so I could be sold out to my uplines dream and trust me, the make-up sucks.
I'm a professional dancer and I use stage make-up all the time. I had to "sneak" to the MAC store in NYC when I was a cult follower and get real make-up that would actually stay on my face during performances. You do the math...
AnnaBanana,
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely HILARIOUS/FANTASTIC blog!
I used to crash Amway/Quixtar meetings and blog about it... stopped when I got married to my girlfriend - life got pretty busy, have a little boy too now, so haven't logged on to any of the critic sites for a while. Was traveling on vacation with the wife and kiddo, when I just felt the urge to check out Quixtarblog.com forum, and then eventually landed here. Kudos to you, you are doing a marvelous job. Great to know that a lot of the critics are still carrying on the fight.
I had quit cold-turkey and managed to stay away for about a couple of years now. But IBOFB's BULL-SHIT that I read here, pulled me back in.
IBOFB is the worst kind of liar, and dishonest human being there is.
One of the famous half-truths he used to spout on a regular basis when challenged about Amway growth rates, was - "Look at the all NEW Diamonds Amway has created". EXCEPT. That didn't tell you how many FELL OUT of qualification!
This Artistry BULL is also another one he uses on a regular basis.
Okay. "Prestige". One could say, in a colloquial way that it refers to "Brand-Image". L'Oreal, Sisheido etc. Brands that are sold in 'upscale' DEPARTMENT STORES. I remember a TV program where a Dermatologist basically said most of these 'high-end/high-priced' skin-care stuff are basically snake-oil that don't do anything. But 'prestige' is primarily about 'perception' of the customer, and is dependent on the 'sales-channels' (high-end-Deptmt-stores), as well as how the products are 'marketed/advertised' by the company selling it. Think Ralph-Lauren, Tommy-Hilfiger, and Nautica. Big, fancy displays and exclusive floor-spaces in "Department-Stores", usually high-end. Now go look at the Cosmetics counters/displays of the 'high-end' brands of cosmetics.
Does 'Artistry' satisfy either of those two? A ‘high-end-sales-channel’, and ‘high-profile-ad-campaigns’?
NOPE.
Let's forget 'perception'.
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ReplyDeleteLet's talk 'actual-quality'. When IBOs who drop out of Amway stop buying Artistry cosmetics, what does that tell you? Either, the 'quality' isn't that great, or the price is not 'matching' with the 'quality' offered - or - the 'perception' of the quality thereof.
Top-5 "Prestige-Brand"? G-A-R-B-A-G-E.
Now, let's look at Euromonitor. It's a 'market-research-firm'. Where do they get their money from? SELLING "market-research" ;-) to the very companies who they are doing their 'market-research' on - namely the cosmetics companies. Amway being one of their customers. Now, what are the odds that there is some quid-pro-quo involved in these transactions? i.e. Produce a "market-research" skewed to fit the 'client' requirement - Amway's Requirement?
Here’s an email conversation I had with a guy from Euromonitor, Scott Rencher, about HOW they arrived at that conclusion about Amway’s Artistry cosmetic line.
The initial hesitation, the jargon, the vagueness, and the final defensiveness.
DEAD GIVEAWAY that they are being PAID to CONCOCT this categorization for Artistry – “Top-5-Prestige-Brand”.
Prestige-Brand’, my ass!
Read below and enjoy – I’ve arranged the conversation in chronological order starting with my first email. Well, actually I had emailed them SIX times before they responded, so it was actually my sixth email.
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ReplyDeleteME to SCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR
Subject: 6th Attempt - YOUR WEBSITE
I sent this question a couple of times earlier, but didn't get a response, so I am sending this question again -
I was browsing through your website, and I was wondering - what kind of services do you provide? Is it strictly 'Market-Research', or do you also provide 'Product-Ratings' by comparing different brands?
How do you decide that a certain brand falls into a 'prestige-brand' category?
SCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR to ME
RE: 6th Attempt - YOUR WEBSITE
Apologies for the lack of response, this is the first I’ve seen of your email. I suspect due to the nature of your email handle and address it likely got caught in a spam filter.
We are a market research / business intelligence company. We do no make any product ratings or consumer ratings of products. By the prestige category, I suspect you mean personal care products like skin care and fragrances. Prestige is evaluated based on a combination of factors including price, packaging, ingredients, the distribution channel and positioning to the consumer.
Hope that helps. If there is more we can help with please let us know.
ME to SCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR
Subject: RE: 6th Attempt - YOUR WEBSITE
Thanks. I appreciate your responding to my question.
As regards the "prestige-category" question, to elaborate a little more, my question was specifically about the Artistry Brand of cosmetics manufactured by the Amway Corporation. Apparently a few Amway Distributors are claiming that Euromonitor labeled it as a 'Top-5-PRESTIGE-BRAND', along with Estee Lauder, Lancome, etc.
How EXACTLY do you designate a brand as being in the 'Prestige'
category?
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ReplyDeleteSCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR to ME
RE: 6th Attempt - YOUR WEBSITE
Dear,
Thanks for the reply. Our broad research methodology is available on
our website and part of that methodology involves trade interviews which help us build an industry consensus. We aren't making the call on what is mass and what is prestige in each market internationally and
globally. Again, there are a combination of criteria and an industry
consensus that drives our category definitions for our syndicated
research.
You are asking for some specific information and I hope you can
appreciate, from a confidentiality perspective, I need a little more
from you before I can share anything further. With that said, I need to
get some details from you to better help you.
Can you tell me what brand variance(s) of Artistry you are referring to
as the brand participates in a few different categories? You mention a
few Amway distributors referencing us, can you tell me what country(ies) and when was the publication of this information?
Last, is your organization a subscriber to our databases? When you
reply, can you email me from your corporate email address with phone
number so that I can cover my bases before I respond further.
Thanks for your cooperation.
-scott
Scott Rencher | Director of Sales
(P) +1 312 922 1115 x225
(F) +1 312 922 1157
www.euromonitor.com
ME to SCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR
Subject: RE: 6th Attempt - YOUR WEBSITE
Well,
A few distributors in the USA are bandying around the claim that Euromonitor Intl. 'categorized' Artistry as a top-5 Prestige Brand. As far as the Artistry Brand competing in a few categories, I think Artistry only manufactures skin-care/cosmetics.
I don't understand what the "confidentiality" part is all about? Amway Distributors are openly claiming that Artistry was categorized as a Top-5-Prestige-Brand by Euromonitor.
All I would like to know is whether Euromonitor did specifically refer to Artistry in that fashion, as the Amway Distributors claim. And if so, how did Euromonitor come to that 'conclusion' - what criteria did you use to categorize Artistry in that fashion?
Thank you in advance for your reply. I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my queries.
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ReplyDeleteSCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR to ME
Subject: Amway question
Hi
The brand Artistry has extensions beyond cosmetics and skin care products in various markets around the world. In each country brands can be positioned differently to the consumer hence price positioning, packaging, ingredients, how it is marketed to the consumer and the distribution channel are all criteria taken into account. Additionally we have a lot of input from all the global players in both retail as well as the direct sales channels to build a market consensus on each brand, where it should be positioned in our research, etc. We achieve that ultimate consensus through trade interviews all throughout the value chain with participation from our clients as well as non-clients.
In some markets brands are positioned as prestige and others they are positioned as mass brands. So it will vary from market to market and our definition allows us to pick up those nuances. If you think about a market like Beer for example, it’s the same way. Heineken is a premium beer in the US where as in the Netherlands, it is a domestic, mass brand. Budweiser works the same but in reverse, mass brand in the US and premium in international markets. So even if a product is positioned as a mass or a premium brand in say the US, it doesn’t mean it is internationally or even globally positioned the same way.
Regarding confidentiality, I cannot disclose any information about our clients, what they subscribe to or how they use our information. I am familiar with the Amway Artistry brand claim but I hope you can appreciate I cannot discuss it any further. What I’ve written above applies not only to Artistry but all brands that we cover, worldwide. Judging by the hotmail address, I am assuming you are not with Amway or with a company that subscribes to any of Euromonitor’s resources. If you need further clarification on where Artistry is positioned as a prestige brand, I’d suggest you contact Amway’s corporate communications to see if they will help you. If you want further help from Euromonitor, though, you need to be a little more transparent about what organization you are with as well as email me from your corporate email address.
Best of luck,
Scott
Scott Rencher | Director of Sales
(P) +1 312 922 1115 x225
(F) +1 312 922 1157
www.euromonitor.com
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ReplyDeleteME to SCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR
Subject: RE: AMWAY QUESTION
Mr. Rencher,
I appreciate your prompt response.
But I am a little confused.
At first you said in your earlier email –
>"We aren't making the call on what is mass and what is prestige in each market >internationally and globally."
Then, right behind that sentence, you say,
>"Again, there are a combination of criteria and an industry consensus that drives our >category definitions for our syndicated research."
It seems to me, you ARE implying in the second statement that you DO 'categorize' brands into 'Prestige' and other categories?
Now, in the latest e-mail, you wrote -
>"The brand Artistry has extensions beyond cosmetics and skin care products in >various markets around the world. In each country brands can be positioned >differently to the consumer hence price positioning, packaging, ingredients, how it >is marketed to the consumer and the distribution channel are all criteria taken >into account. Additionally we have a lot of input from all the global players in >both retail as well as the direct sales channels to build a market consensus on >each brand, where it should be positioned in our research, etc. We achieve that >ultimate consensus through trade interviews all throughout the value chain with >participation from our clients as well as non-clients."
Truth be told, I couldn't make ANY sense of that entire paragraph, too much jargon for me to understand - I am having a hard time figuring out whether the "Prestige-Brand" category is a 'designation' that Euromonitor 'BESTOWS' on a particular brand, or whether it is based on 'CONSUMERS PERCEPTIONS'?
Of course, I do understand your point about 'Budweiser' being a 'premium'-brand in Holland, and 'Heineken' being a 'premium'-brand in the US. But those are products sold in the 'open'-market, subject to competitive forces. When you have a brand like Amway's ARTISTRY that derives MOST of its demand from Amway Distributors THEMSELVES consuming the products, it would be PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to make any judgements about the brand's "POSITION" in the open-market, don't you think?
THAT, is what I am trying to figure out. DID Euromonitor 'designate' Artistry as a 'Top-5-Prestige-Brand'? IF you DID 'designate' Artistry as a 'Top-5-Prestige-Brand', HOW did you come to that conclusion? IF you are CLAIMING that the 'designation' is based on 'industry-wide-ACCEPTED' data, then I would appreciate a clear clarification on that.
You also wrote -
>"Regarding confidentiality, I cannot disclose any information about our
>clients, what they subscribe to or how they use our information. I am
>familiar with the Amway Artistry brand claim but I hope you can
>appreciate I cannot discuss it any further."
I don't understand, I did NOT ask for ANY confidential information at all! I just wanted to know the TRUTH behind the 'claim'. WHETHER it is a 'categorization' that Euromonitor gave it, or whether Amway Distributors are 'embellishing' stuff - if you know what I mean? My sister, and my girl-friend were both approached by Amway Distributors, and their general impression after trying out Artistry, was that the quality of the products was pretty pathetic - no-where near the top-of-the-line brands like EsteeLauder and Lancome. Hence, the curiosity. As a concerned 'consumer'.
Again, I will eagerly look forward to your clarification. Thank you in advance, for your reply.
Warm Regards.
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ReplyDeleteME to SCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR A-G-A-I-N - Reminder
Subject: 2nd REMINDER, RE: Amway question
Mr. Rencher,
Thank you for your prompt response to my earlier queries. I appreciate your courtesy.
But I still haven't received a reply to my last e-mail (attached below), so I thought I'd send you a second reminder.
Thank you in advance for your reply.
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ReplyDeleteSCOTT RENCHER @ EUROMONITOR to ME
RE: LAST EMAIL, RE: Amway question
Dear ,
I’m sorry my reply was not satisfactory and I can appreciate how you might think my statements were contradictory. It was by no means my intention to insult you with jargon. We have standard definitions for each category and keep it consistent across each market. In some markets Artistry fits that prestige definition and others it does not. The definition doesn’t change but the local market conditions do and you have not taken that into consideration. I’ll say it again, our definition takes into account various criteria including looking at price, promotion to the consumer, packaging, ingredients, distribution channel, etc. It really depends on the positioning in the context of that market. To directly answer your question, no we do not designate or bestow a classification upon any brand as you have suggested nor do we regurgitate what a manufacturer tells us about their brand. All of our research must be corroborated by local players (suppliers, manufacturers, wholesalers and distributors) of that brand, in that market, again, in the context of that market.
If you truly understood the Budweiser example, you would appreciate that in other markets a brand can be positioned and perceived in different ways. In markets where Direct seller’s brands are strong compared to brands sold through traditional retail outlets, you may very well find what you consider to be a mass brand is positioned as premium. When I visit another country, I still consider Budweiser to be a mass beer. Even though it tastes the same to me, the local market, in the context of that market, treats it as a premium import. I think Heineken tastes better in the Netherlands and tastes like rubbish in the US. But it’s still a premium beer in the US by all standards, despite my disagreement. Again looking at price, promotion, ingredients, packaging, channel distribution, etc.
I don’t understand what you mean by your “open market” reference. No one is preventing an Amway distributor from representing other direct selling firms or from buying other products in traditional retail channels. Would you also say you cannot determine the position of a brand that only targets and derive most of their revenues from a particular demographic and income range? That’s pretty much any and all manufacturers. That’s really what a direct sales firm is doing; targeting a specific demographic and lifestyle who want to “own” their own business. I could represent Amway, Herbalife and Usana in addition to buying products from Burt’s Bees, Jergens, Bath & Body Works and Lancome. That seems like an open market to me, don’t you think? The packaging and ingredients, the outlet I buy the product through, the price I pay for a product, in context of other products available to me as a consumer in that market, will determine positioning. Is that so unreasonable a definition?
So we will end the dialog here. It sounds like you’re pretty upset about this brand that you are unable to accept that it competes in any other context. The brand is prestige in some markets and mass in others. How they have represented themselves to you, I cannot answer. Any manufacturer who uses our information may very well source Euromonitor and make a claim without divulging any further details, definitions, context or clarifications. I cannot speak for their marketing department so you will have to take your complaint up with Amway directly to get further explanation on the claim: http://www.amway.com/en/General/ContactUs.aspx
For one who is such a “concerned consumer” and looking after the well being of your girlfriend and sister, my advice is, if you don’t believe in the brand, don’t buy it and don’t sell it.
Sincerely, best of luck.
Scott Rencher | Director of Sales
(P) +1 312 922 1115 x225
(F) +1 312 922 1157
www.euromonitor.com
Now, you know FOR SURE – Artistry is the best cosmetic line in the world!
Hi Perceptive - Thanks for stopping by! Glad you're enjoying my blog.
ReplyDeleteIBOFB rarely shows up here. This blog is about trashing my upline. He already agrees with me that my upline are a bunch of idiots and seeing as how he was never in the same room as me listening to the brainwashed bullshit there's not a whole lot he can contribute. He does show up sometimes when I write something more specific about Amway or its products rather than cursing out my upline.
As for Scott Rencher's emails to you he probably is likely bound by a confidentiality agreement or privacy laws and can't tell you what you want to hear. Its all part of the secrecy surrounding Amway. You know how they won't disclose how many IBO's are out there, how many are Diamonds, their earnings, or break down by country. There's got to be a smart business decision in there somewhere that they don't want that information out there - but to everything looking in all we see are smoke and mirrors.
Hey Anna,
ReplyDeleteYou are right, Scott Rencher and Euromonitor are whores for Amway. They have been PAID to peddle this bullshit "market-research" in favor of Amway. So obviously they are not going to come right out and admit it. But it was fun making him dance.
Btw, did you notice how he responded to my "open-market" comment? ;-) Funny how his response sounds like a perfectly CANNED response from Amway! LOL....
Or to put it more accurately, he sounded exactly like IBOFB's canned responses to suggestions that Amway products don't have any NATURAL demand outside of Amway Distributors self-consuming to achieve PV goals.
"Well, the people who like Amway's products - ALL OF THEM ;-) - decided to also become business owners since it is so easy to run an Amway Business! That's why it SEEMS like there is no demand for Amway products outside of Amway Distributors. Ergo, Amway Products DO have natural demand, and not pv-goal-driven-artifically-induced demand as alleged by the critics."
ROFLMBO!
LOL, hilarious how you people rant at something you barely understand... I wouldn't have the patience Tex has to come back to you with facts, as your minds have already been polluted by your negative experience with your uplines.
ReplyDeleteEveryone has their own choice of vehicle to building a personal fortune, so why badmouth Amway? Amway is merely a supplier of the products and the system, and your choice to participate in it with dishonest and pushy uplines was a poor choice on your part, not Amways. Amway has lax regulations on who can sign up as distributors, but that is the very definition of free enterprise, which is the basis of capitalism. So if you judge Amway Corp based on your experience with your choice of upline, that's unfair on the company as a whole.
Tbh, I don't blame Scott Rencher from replying you with a canned response, as you're not a paying subscriber to Euromonitor (an INDEPENDANT body, you people label everyone who's got something positive to say about Amway as paid whores and such) and as such, why should he give you information for free that everyone else (including Amway, it's IBOs, and everyone in general) has to pay for? You think that they owe it to you to clear Amway's name?
I'm posting here as anonymous as I've got better things to do than spend time talking to hard-heads like some of you, like building my own Amway business. Good luck living inside your self-created shells, labeling everything outside evil. This attitude of yours can be likened to religious extremists who label everything outside their holy books as going against the will of God etc.
Tex - Why bother with this lot? Sure, there's a lot of misinformation posted here by em, but unless you know these people, what does it matter? Let em live mediocre lives if that's what they want.
Hmm..by your logic, even if an Amway upline assaulted or sexually harrased a new Ambot, Amway shouldn't take any responsibility for it because they just can't help it if they recruit scumbags. That's funny..I can't think of another business or government agency in the country that could get away with that. I have a friend that recently started Amway, and he has changed - and not for the better. I had no opinion of Amway either way until this happened, and after reading the many stories and comments here, so far the pro-Amway people come off like arrogant pricks with personality disorders and no common sense, and the anti-Amway people sound quite...normal and sane. Go figure.
DeleteOf course one of the joys of writing this blog is dealing with brainwashed ambots who show up here and feel compelled to make assholes of themselves.
ReplyDeleteLike any other employer Amway is responsible for the actions of their employees. If Amway allows their employees to run amok all over the world spreading lies, destroying marriages, and causing financial distress and chooses not to do anything about it, then the victims take to the Internet to tell others and hope that we can help others from going down the same path of destruction.
The reason you are posting here anonymously is because you're too ashamed and embarrassed to admit you have anything to do with the Amway pyramid scheme. Those of us who are no longer in Amway choose to post anonymously for the same reason - its embarrasing to admit that you were scammed and brainwashed. How humiliating.
Anonymous - I know you are from Kuala Lumpur and that you showed up here after searching for "Euromonitor Artistry top 5" and I will go out on a limb and say you are probably a man. For some reason Amway men love Artistry Amway cosmetics a whole lot more than women do. Isn't it great fun that my blog is so high up on the search engines!
Hey Guys,
ReplyDeleteJust thought I would put my 2 cents in... I am a third generation IBO with the Amway Business Opportunity. I like to just for fun jump on and read about all of you people who love our company so much you just can not stop thinking about it or blogging about it for that reason. Ill put just a few thoughts up here.
Amway does not post Diamond income or other big pins because they own there own businesses silly and they can not possible know. Sure they can report their gross earnings and if you made enough in the business you would be able to see it but as one of those I do not want 1 of 2 things happening and for sure not both, one that people get the false conclusion that my income is a going to be theirs. If they want it and are willing to do they work they can have it but the Governments ie the FTC are the people who tell us what we can legally say to prospects, 2 I do not want knuckleheads like you knowing what I make so you have one more thing to whin about.
Also, when you guys compare companies like Artistry to Avon well its just not right. We do not claim that we have the only products that anyone can buy. If your upline told you that you could not use any other company than stupid you for chosing a stupid upline. We do not have enough interest to have as wide of a selections as companies like Avon. Avon reps depend on Avon alone. I pray for them that Avon keeps coming out with great products to help with everyone of the current and potential customers. Amway depends on almost all catagories. Artistry being such a great company is a plus. We built the brand out of the request of ladies in the business who wanted a skin care line of their own. I am a guy...i do not wear make up but I do take care of my skin! Is that wronge. IBOFB or whatever you call him is just as human as anyone of you. I think i have found some stupid assumption or false claim here by everyone who has posted. In my team, we do make that claim but it comes first from a video produced by Amway before anyone says it from stage.
You guys need to realize that Amway has over 3 million IBOs world wide. IBOs are not employees. We are Business Owners. Every franshise in the world has good and bad business owners. North America is our 4th largest market because America is a land of Free Enterprise and just like Amway is a great choise for some of us, it is not for everyone. If you do not Like Amway, start a franshise of your own, buy a McDonalds or a Subway. But what Amway is doing that many other compaies cant is breaking the boundaries of Nations and taking Free Enterprise to places in the world were people do not have as many options. If you can out do us, then by all means go for it. Competition is good in business and if you did not know that, maybe your upline should have told you to get an education.
So now you have it....the view point of all the bad from the child and grand child of Amway Distrubitors. I am pround of both my parents and grandparents for leaving me as a child at night while i was alseep so we could time together while i was awake. Now I rest after a week in NYC and ill wake when i am rested with a bible next to my bed and no alarm clock. Adeu suckers!
Spencer - you have been brainwashed by Amway assholes all your life so there is not much hope for you.
DeleteMy blog is all about cursing out the fucking assholes in my upline. They chose Amway as their scam. Could have been any other MLM scam. Amway is the vehicle. I have less interest in discussing Amway than I do cursing out the assholes in our upline.
Nobody owns their own business if they have to accept someone else's rules and prices. IBO's are commissioned salespeople.
Thanks for proving that Amway is guilty of disclosure. Don't you think mommy and daddy are going to be riding your ass because you look at websites and blogs that aren't all glowing praise of the Amway cult? When we were in Amway we were told not to look at sites like this.
Do you ever wonder why your parents and grandparents are still flogging the Amway shit? What happened to work 2 to 5 years and never work again and have bazillions of dollars rolling in for the rest of your life? Doesn't look like your parents or grandparents were able to walk away. That's what being brainwashed into a cult does to a person.
I always have to laugh at the Amway/McDonald's analogies that Ambots try to make. Nothing similar about them at all unless McDonald's sold franchises telling the new owners to be their only customer eating the food and then get other people to also do the same thing lining the street with strings of McDonald's where only the owners eat at them due to the high cost of the food.
DeleteBesides that, when someone buys a McDonald's franchise, it is almost always profitable in a short amount of time. In Amway, only 0.6 percent of the IBO's will ever make a decent profit. Along the way they will also alienate family and friends trying to use them to make money off of to pull them into the 99% failure rate "business". Plus, McDonald's is not a pyramid scheme. In Amway, the only way the 0.6% can make money (other than with the tools and convention fees) is by having a downline LOSING lots and lots of money. A moral, honest person who won't lie or mislead people to hook them in can't make it big in the business. To make money in Amway one has to not care that the vast majority of those under them will be losing tons of money, have their finances and relationships destroyed, and all so those at the tippy top of the pyramid can become rich. "Amway" and "conscience" don't go together.
But when one has been brainwashed their entire life to disregard reality, not much we can do to help them. The purpose of this site is to warn others about the tactics used to reel in "fresh meat" into the cult so they can avoid the fate of 99% of Ambots.
~Dave
Dave - even if I owned a McDonalds that wouldn't stop me from finding other places to eat. Yes the comparison to a McDonalds franchise always there and ambots claim it costs a million dollars to start a McDonalds whereas Amway you can get started for $150 or whatever the current rip off price of membership plus the all important starter kit costs. As far as I can tell McDonalds franchises costs anywhere from a few hundred thousand to a couple of million depending on location. There are other franchise restaurants and businesses with lower start up costs. I'm sure more McDonalds owners earn way more money than an Amway Diamond and work less because they hire managers and staff! Hell part time McDonald's employees earn way more money than most people in Scamway!
DeletePeople go into McDonalds restaurants and buy something to eat because they want to. Unlike purchasing overpriced Amway shit that they only bought because someone they know hounded them until they finally bought it to get the Amway asshole off their back.
What a very un-Christian attitude you have there. Sounds like you need to crack that Bible open and read all that stuff Jesus said about not being obsessed with money and material things, and also the part about loving your neighbors AND your enemies. You come off as snarky and full of crap.
DeleteI'm addicted to this blog! Now that I've read the posts back through 2010, I'm going back and reading the comments too. I want to be prepared with answers for the lines our friend who is a new IBO parrots, but I'm loving the entertainment value, too.
ReplyDelete"Tex did somebody piss in your corn flakes this morning?" made me burst out laughing. Anna I'm truly sorry for all you endured and lost, but thanks again for the truths and humor here!
Hi Anonymous. You should have read the comments at the same time saves you going back twice to read! Most of the times the comments are more fun than the post. Sometimes to get through to people you've got to entertain them. Glad you're enjoying!
DeleteI recently went to an info session after my boyfriend has been haunting me to go. Well I was particularly interested in the creme lux product as it states it uses Cardiolipin which is not even listed in ingredient list or under a diff name . I proceeded to ask a diamond who was gonna present the artisrty products and she looked dumbfounded as I asked about the ingredients and the fact that petrolatum is listed as the number 2 Ingredient next to the number 1 listed ingredient of water. She could not answer any of my questions regarding why this creme works or about what's in it and then turned her Back to talk to someone else . I don't need to say more... if u are selling a $335 creme u bet Ur ass u better know about the product .
ReplyDelete