My first thought is why the hell would you want to do that?
Then I got to wondering are these artificial trees or real trees?
Either way if Amway is selling them they have got to cost a bundle!
Then I got to thinking what a great idea to screw up somebody’s search criteria by ending up at my blog yet again! Oh Christmas Tree, oh Amway Christmas Tree, how shitty to have you in my house!
Probably IBOFB will show up to say that Amway has partnered with some farmer in Vermont
No matter who is selling Christmas trees they’re going to be a real joy to ship and probably cost a few bucks. Cheaper to buy locally.
If its an artificial Christmas tree there is plenty of mail order competition for that one. I’ve seen artificial trees for sale on eBay, JC Penny, Walmart, etc. You buy them and they’re shipped to your house.
So I did a Google search for buying a live Christmas tree to have shipped to your house and was surprised to find such beasts do exist! They cost more than going to your Christmas tree lot but not all that much more. I couldn’t find how much to ship the suckers though. I wouldn’t want to be the guy having to sweep out his UPS truck after delivering one. Pine needles everywhere!
There are enough nurseries and organizations selling live Christmas trees where you can go and pick out one that you like rather than waiting for the UPS to deliver an overpriced Christmas tree that shows up with smushed branches and missing foliage and an unfortunate decomposing odor.
Boycott Amway! No overpriced Amway Christmas trees allowed in the house! No shitty overpriced Amway products allowed under our tree!
Anna - I didn't know there were special, cripplingly-expensive Xmas trees for Ambots. However, literally anything can be used by the billionaire bosses of the 'Amway' mob to hide their closed-market swindle. It doesn't matter what apparently banal merchandise, and/or service, is chosen to launder illegal internal payments, provided the price of this distracting wampum is centrally-fixed at a level which renders it effectively-unsaleable to the public on the open market.
ReplyDeleteOnce you understand how the absurd closed-market 'MLM' trick is pulled, the only way for insolvent temporary Ambots to increase their fake 'sales figures', is to recruit more insolvent temporary Ambots, ad infinitum. Yet, all over the world, it is fundamentally unlawful to set up any dangerous scheme based on the specious and unsustainable economic theory that endless-chain recruitment + endless payments by the recruits = endless profits for the recruits.
David Brear (copyright 2011)
David - I never knew Amway sold Christmas trees either, artificial or recently chopped down. I'm still not sure. For all we know this was just some brainwashed ambot making a stab in the dark guess and doing a search for Amway Christmas trees. All I know is if Amway is selling trees they must be at least triple in price of buying them anywhere else. If they are recently chopped down from a Christmas tree farm I would not want to rely on someone else's decision on what is a suitable Christmas tree for me not to mention the logisitics of shipping it and how fresh it will be when it arrives and any damage that might occur while in the UPS truck.
ReplyDeleteAbout the only training we got at Amway meetings was how to set up fake customers, how to trick people to come to Amway meetings, the basic art of being a scammer and ripping people off. Amway is not the right MLM opportunity for honest people.
Anna - In the final analysis, it doesn't matter in the slightest what effectively-unsaleable wampum is offered in an 'MLM' scheme. Indeed, the bosses of the 'second KKK' ran the identical esoteric swindle in the 1920s and gathered millions of dollars. 'Grand Dragons' and 'Imperial Wizards' peddled over-priced life insurance and hooded costumes to their approximately 6 millions initiates. They also peddled, publications, recordings and tickets to regular orgies of self-gratification.
ReplyDeleteEvery so-called 'MLM income opportunity' I have ever examined, has turned out to be a thinly-disguised, copy-cat 'Amway' pyramid scam, in which regular unlawful internal payments have been laundered simply by calling them 'sales' and by giving the victims over-priced, cheaply-procured and, therefore, effectivley-unsaleable, products, and/or services, in return for these unlawful payments, to distract them from reality and to fool casual observers.
The very latest 'MLM' scams have recently gone back to the absurd quack-medical origins of the pre-'Amway', 'Nutrilite Double X' ($20 per packet of 10 cents tablets) scam, instigated during the late 1940s. The new generation of grinning 'MLM' racketeers now offer cure-all mixtures of cheaply-procured fruit-juices at jaw-dropping prices. This is the equivalent of selling bedazzling amalgams of valueless base metals for the price of pure gold.
Even the least-noxious ('non-'MLM') single tier, direct selling schemes, have usually relied on temporarily exploiting their ill-informed participants' personal relationships. The overall annual drop-out/ failure rate in all direct selling schemes ('MLM' and non-'MLM) is usually enough to kill the initial enthusiasm of any potential recruit. This why they have been deliberately hidden.
David Brear (copyright 2011)
David - the drop out rate in hidden in the small print. .0726% of IBO's reach an income of about $95,000/year. The tiny percentage of less than 1% of IBO's drops significantly for higher income levels. Of course everyone in the upline has a mantra of ignoring the facts. The scam is to draw out all these circles and lines of the Amway pyramid and how much money you can earn depending on where on the pyramid you are. Sell the hope not the soap.
ReplyDeleteSo how is Amway flogging the overpriced Christmas trees - if there really is such a think and not some bogus search by a brainwashed ambot. Buy an overpriced Christmas tree on the credit card. Put a few cans of XS energy drink and Amway food bars under it for Christmas presents because there won't be any money left over for real Christmas presents.
Anna - When you factor-in 50+ years of constant hidden failure, even the pathetic figure (buried in the small print) of 0.726% of current 'Amway' participants receiving a gross-annual commission-related income of $95 000, is a distorting snap-shot of overall reality.
ReplyDeleteHowever, every exemplary 'Amway' adherent receiving $95 000 (gross) annually, needs to maintain thousands of insolvent adherents slaving and regularly contributing beneath him/her, but each of these thousands of insolvent slave-contributors, in turn, would need to maintain thousands more insolvent slave-contributors beneath him/her to achieve the same level of gross income, etc. ad infinitum. Thus, what 'Amway' offers, is a mathematical impossibilty.
In reality, other than the insignificant minority of grinning schills who are always portrayed by the black propaganda as examples of stable success at the top of the 'Amway' pyramid (but who have rarely lasted more than 5 years and whose only real income has secretly derived from the 'tool scam'), the actual, overall, rolling, failure/drop-out rate in the so-called 'Amway MLM income opportunity' has been a solid 100%.
This makes 'Amway' a total fraud, and the beneficiaries of this ongoing, global financial holocaust (with a small 'h'), the enemies of not just the American people, but of all humanity.
Even 'Amway's' shyster attorneys do not dispute that more than 10 millions Americans have already failed to make a net-profit from the so-called 'Amway MLM income opprtunity.' An estimated 50+ millions have similarly failed all around the world. Currently, the 'Amway' racket is still being allowed to churn around 2 millions fresh victims annualy. For obvious reasons, 'Amway's' shyster attorneys have lately attempted to label all these fraud victims, 'customers' and 'consumers.'
Senior US government agents are fully-aware of what has been going on, but (to date) they have done precious little to stop it. The billionaire bosses of the 'Amway' mob have been using some of their ill-gotten gains to subvert the democratic process and rule of law, for decades.
David Brear (copyright 2011)
As an Ambot, why would you need to buy Christmas presents anyway? Stay in Scamway long enough and you'll have no friends plus your own family will avoid you like the plague!
ReplyDeleteDavid - I would think if someone is earning at least $95,000/year honestly then why would they need to get involved with a scam like Amway. They already have the potential to earn that sum and in most cases don't need to destroy other people's lives and cause emotional and financial distress to build their little Scamway empire.
ReplyDeleteI would say that Amway's lawyers pretty much know what's going on but their job is to make sure their client is able to keep on operating so they're good at finding loopholes in the law or using the Amway mentality of blaming the victim. Probably the only way to make real good money in Amway is to come back as one of their lawyers!
Connie - you got it. Forget being an ambot with no disposable income to buy Christmas presents for anyone. Ambots have already alienated everyone in their lives there is no one left to buy for!
ReplyDeleteAnna - You are right, cults have been meal-tickets for the many intellectual prostitutes who infest the legal and academic worlds.
ReplyDeleteSadly, the de facto agents of 'MLM' bosses have been allowed to insert their employers' own linguistic loopholes into rules designed to define and regulate the traditional commercial practise of direct selling. You know straight away that 'MLM' crooks have been at work, when vague terms like 'customers' and 'consumers' are present in direct sales legislation.
Obviously, for any direct selling scheme to be economically viable and, therefore, not a closed-market swindle, a significant number of its participants must be able to prove that they have regularly sold significant quantities of products, and/or services, to the public for a profit. A moment's thought, reveals that 'customers' and 'consumers' are conveniently meaningless terms, because they can be interpreted by lawyers as meaning just about anyone, including the victims of a closed-market swindle dissimulated as a direct selling scheme.
This subversion of the democratic process and the rule of law by 'MLM' bosses, is part of an overall pattern of ongoing, major racketeering activity.
David Brear (copyright 2011)
David - don't forget the term prosumer that ambots are fond of using for their customers who aren't IBO's (yet) but pay the yearly membership fee to buy overpriced Amway products at the inflated wholesale price.
ReplyDeleteWhen I seen the title of this post the First thing I envisioned in my head was A Christmas tree made out of cans of XS energy drinks..
ReplyDeleteCould you imagine... paying $100-200 for a Christmas tree from Amway and Being sent a bunch of empty cans of XS energy drinks and instructions on how to make them into a XS-Mas tree.
Ha ha JadenRed! That's pretty funny. Not to mention scary! An artificial Amway Christmas tree made up from empty XS cans. Nothing like wrecking your Christmas and getting one of those!
ReplyDeleteMore ideas on decorating for Xmas using Scamway products: You could mold all that crap your dog is pushing out after eating Amway dog food into a creche scene!
ReplyDeleteIt would even have that authentic 'stable" manure smell!
Anna: Don't you just love to read David Brear's posts?
ReplyDelete"...cults have been meal-tickets for the many intellectual prostitutes who infest the legal and academic worlds"....
Not only is this true, but the way he writes is so erudite and poetic, even when he's writing about tragic situations. Don't you just feel smarter reading anything the guy writes? I do! :-)
Ha ha! Connie that's very funny. The dog shit scene would be something to create and give away to the upline because I sure wouldn't want to have that smell in my house!
ReplyDeleteDavid Brear has very thoughtful well researched posts. I've copied a few into my Word document to see what grade level he writes at and its always something like Grade 14 or 16 so that would be university learned scholar type of level. A little intellectually out of my league! The man must be a walking encyclopedia when it comes to Amway and MLM's and cults. At least he can write in a manner where he's not looking down at the readers and feeling he must be a one man act to educate the idiots!
LMAO! im sure the upline would love that.
ReplyDeleteFor me it is nice to see as many people post and stand up against the MLM industry and a bonus to see someone who has done that much research on MLM and Cults.
Ive been following these posts and comments for a while now and learned that my Husband and My experience with quixtar & MLM is not an isolated incident.
I'm glad that Amway hasn't yet reached the North Pole in their globalization. Could you imagine poor Santa getting pulled into the Amway scheme? A brainwashed St. Nick with kids on his lap telling him what they want for Christmas and Santa telling them he'll bring them the Amway equivalent of what they are asking for, despite their protests.
ReplyDeleteAnd when he shows up at folk's homes, he goes through and replaces things with the overpriced, inferior Amway versions.
I think even the Who's down in Whoville would have a hard time singing after waking up to that. They would have preferred their homes emptied than Amwayed.
~Dave
JadenRed - I'm glad you're stopping by. One of the main reasons I started this blog was to let other wives out there know they're not alone. The other reason is to curse out my upline!
ReplyDeleteOnce you start researching other people's stories you'll find out what's going on with you has happened to many other wives. I've copied other women's stories from where I've found them on the Internet written 5, 10, 15 years ago and I could have written any of them. We all have the same story. We're all called negative un-christian dream stealers. We're all victims of a ruthless bunch of upline assholes whose main mission in life is to destroy our marriages and destroy our finances.
If your husband isn't already out of the Amway cult I hope the end is in sight for you real soon!
Dave - that is scary to imagine Santa getting brainwashed into the Amway cult!
ReplyDeleteI'm with the Who's! I'd rather have my home emptied of all Christmas stuff than to get Amwayed!
Anna said
ReplyDelete"Probably the only way to make real good money in Amway is to come back as one of their lawyers!"
I can think of two other options. Either figure out how to become a family member of the billionaire owners or just become an employee of scamway, I am sure they must make more $$ than 99%+ of ambots annually and possible benefits, etc.
ExAmbot - yes coming back as an heir to the Scamway fortune would be another way to make money at this scheme. An employee stopped by a few days ago. 20 years with this cult (his/her words) and no benefits. So nope to the employee option!
ReplyDeleteDarn! Does this scamway shaft everybody it can every which way it can? Even it's own employees!
ReplyDeleteDavis said "For obvious reasons, 'Amway's' shyster attorneys have lately attempted to label all these fraud victims, 'customers' and 'consumers.'"
ReplyDeleteAbout Customers, consumers...yeah right.
To brand the mathematically cursed ambots as such is a feeble attempt to whitewash the truth-that the scamway landscape is littered not with thousands and thousands of millionaires or financially free people but with those who have met with the mathematically guaranteed certain doom in this pernicious scam.
Truth is scamming ambots spin circles to prospective recruits to entice them to join in the scammer's downline and hope they too will become scamming circle spinners so the ambots can create uh... ahem... a big "business", a large organization, whatever. Not an qual emphasis is placed on the products for this reason. The purpose of the core truth within that is well known to scamway, kingpins and ambots: As long as someone can consistently find new recruits willing to spend a few hundred or thousand dollars for a few months attempting to create their own network before they eventually quit scamway will make $ and so will the kingpins to the detriment of the lowly ambot. It's those lowly ambots who provide the gravy i.e. dollars, to the scamming slave masters for they are, always have been, in overwhelming majority the end buyers/consumers within the scam. Thus, the whole scheme is evidently, a self sustaining, closed market swindle. Further, I offer that 3rd party buyers' numbers would have no significance whatsoever, to scamway bottom line numbers-the scam would still function just as efficiently as it does today, without them. Oh but for the FTC being such a trouble maker to the "business."
Another truth is thus, the prohibitive prices of scamway crap certainly guarantees even being a customer is simply a bad deal. In other words it makes no sense whatsoever to be a scamway customer. There are exceptions (I will never figure out why) but quite insignificant. The prices and inefficient logistics negate any benefit thereof of the crappy products/services, real or otherwise (usually mostly imagined!)
@ConnieF
ReplyDeleteI know I am smarter than an average bear in my neighborhood (and ambots too) but I too feel very smart reading David's posts, as anybody would. The exception is of course ambots who sadly, while still suffering the ramifications of intellectual castration (thanx David) by uplines brainwashing them through daily inane activities like chewing cd's (daily) as part of being core, I hardly doubt would appreciate elucidation of David's succinct, unbiased thoughts on the deceptive MLM ...ahem industry.
It's interesting what do you think happens to an ambot's mind when they read David's writings? I think system failure, can't compute (thinking is intellectually castrated) What do you think?
David said "..adherents slaving and regularly contributing..."
ReplyDeleteWell captured David. My goodness it's like Jone's Town all over again!
Sounds like a church, a cultic one. Let's see what we know. We know it's a closed market swindle, we know the products are not worth the prices, we know the products are just object for transference of cash to uplines, we know the cultic tendencies of it's adherents, we know a lot, so if we get so infuriated by the Swaggarts, Tiltons, Hinns, Longs etc, the owners and kingpins are this "church's" Swaggarts, Tiltons, Hinns, Longs etc and I dish out to them all an equally healthy dose of the same disgust, it's my honor you are welcome!
The bigger the pin, the bigger the conscammer, the more disrespect from me-for they have that many more poor souls scammed. I cannot, and will never ever be far out on a limb in defense of anything MLM, including but not limited to kingpins, even if my own mother was one. In fact I will personally dislodge her from that pyramid top post! AMEN!
Anna and other courageous victims of the 'Amway' racket - Other than the narcissistic bosses and under-bosses of the 'Amway' mob, and their aggressive echelon of arrogant, and shameless, intellectual prostitutes, the other greedy little gang of smiling traitors to the American Republic (who have always been more than ready to take a fat share of their fellow citizens' stolen money), has been formed by so-called 'Republican' politicians and the representatives of the so-called 'Religious Right.'
ReplyDeleteAlong with various members of the Bush family, a certain Mr. Newt Gingrich used to be a regular paid-speaker at 'Amway' mass-rallies. The going rate for this indefensible activity was $50- $100 thousands (+ expenses) per speech.
In plain language, Gingrich (who apparently still dreams that one day he will become US President) was one of numerous leading so-called 'Republicans' who were regularly being paid huge bribes by 'MLM' racketeers. These overt payments of covert stolen-money were simply laundered as 'speaking fees.' In return, Gingrich has enthusiastically taken part in the subversion of the democratic process, on a scale which beggars belief:
http://www.corporations.org/amway/mollyivins.html
If the USA was ruled by law, rather than by racketeers, then Gingrich, and his corrupt pals (including certain members of Congress and former US Presidents), would have long since been indicted, stripped of their stolen wealth and jailed, under RICO legislation. However, Gingrich is a perfect reflection of what the USA has become in recent years. He is one of the clean-cut, but incompetent, deck-officers who (under orders from thieves) have steamed the US ship of state directly into an iceberg, but as the ordinary passengers drown, Gingrich and his cowardly pals have taken to the life-boats from where they are still steadfastly pretending absolute moral and intellectual authority.
Gingrich once gave an absurd speech to an 'Amway' gathering, in which he stated:
'Nothing would do more to help the people that used to live in what was called the Soviet empire to achieve prosperity, to achieve freedom, to achieve opportunity than to have sixty or seventy thousand Amway folks go over there and start recruiting'
In the adult world of quantifiable reality, Newt Gingrich has been the de facto agent of some of the most dangerous racketeers that the world (let alone the USA) has produced since the demise of the so-called 'Third Reich.'
David Brear (copyright 2011)
ExAmbot - yes its pretty scummy a company as big as Amway with the amount of sales they claim to have every year can't even give their employees benefits. Starbucks offers their employees benefits and in this day and age having your dental, medical, and hopefully some kind of retirement or pension contributions is huge. But when you're a company in the business of fucking everyone over, well what else do you expect?
ReplyDeleteI'd throw out there that anybody who is not involved in Amway is smarter than any ambot but that would be stereotyping and we all know that even well educated people can get sucked into a cult.
And yes I compared being in Amway as being in Jonestown. I swear our sack of shit Platinum was a reincarnation of Jim Jones.
David - I consider myself more a pissed off victim than a courageous victim of Amway!
ReplyDeleteGood post. Great imagery!
@Anna
ReplyDelete"I'd throw out there that anybody who is not involved in Amway is smarter than any ambot but that would be stereotyping and we all know that even well educated people can get sucked into a cult."
Mea culpa, I concede.
Anna - I think that you should post a link to Shyam Sundar's Corporate Frauds Watch Blog, because today's news from the USA about the civil prosecution (by the SEC) of six of the many banksters who were responsible for the current world economic crisis, and who, in this particular case, have already cost US tax-payers $150 billions, is almost as tragic and comical as the 'Amway' saga.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the six banksters' immediate defence could almost have come from the 'Amway' Ministry of Truth. Their attorneys say that this regulatory agency can't charge their clients with fraud, because, at the time the alleged fraud occured, their clients were acting with full SEC approval.
http://corporatefraudswatch.blogspot.com/
David Brear (copyrght 2011)
ExAmbot - on the flip side, every ambot thinks they are smarter than everyone else just by the virtue of they're in Amway and everyone else isn't. That's what arrogance does to you. Brainwashing too probably.
ReplyDeleteDavid - there's not enough swearing there to my liking though I do stop by from time to time. I usually follow the link on Joecool's page.
ReplyDeleteAnna, we both left Quixtar at the same thank goodness. We were not in for long, only about 6 months & 5grand spent, a low amount compared to what many of others had lost Being IBO's in a MLM. :(
ReplyDeleteHere was an insane decision on our part while we were in quixtar/scamway: we bought over 300 bags of coffee.
I kid you not When we left scamway we had at minimal 300 bags of kahve coffee "the small bags that made about 4 pots of coffee".
JadenRed - I estimate that most "serious business builders" spend at least $10,000/year in Scamway. So your $5000 after 6 months is about right. In fact you've inspired me to repost a blog from about a year ago where I broke down costs and what it costs minimally to be involved in Amway. And way to go for escaping! That's about the point where most IBO's realize they've spent big bucks and only earned less than a couple hundred commission and walk out. Unless you have assholes like our upline who convince ambots they can't leave now not when success is right around the corner or if they quit that means they're losers.
ReplyDeleteLousy brainwashing buyllying bastards!
300 bags of coffee! Doesn't that stuff go stale after awhile?
quite scary to think what would of happened had we stayed in..
ReplyDeleteMost of our money went towards amway products and about $400-600 including gas attending seminars/roundups/events..we did not get anyone underneath of us, If we did have downline it would of made it a lot harder to leave the scamway business. and we did not buy books/cd's..I do recall a few quite high in our upline being not too happy with us for not buying the books and cd's
as for the coffee, yeah and when it expired I
could not bare to waste it so we tried to find other uses for it like unclogging drains and material for decomposer..neither worked too well but at least I can say my flowers were planted in gourmet soil. LOL
JadenRed - it says right in Amway's policies that IBO's are not required to buy motivation CD's, books, attend functions, etc and that your upline is still required to work with you and help you with your business. But our sack of shit Platinum said he would not work with anybody who did not buy the tools. Of course Amway doesn't particularly care that their cult leaders are violating their policies.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why we didn't buy Amway coffee. We always have some in the house. My husband preferred XS energy drinks. He drank at least 5 of them daily so that was where our money went. Funny he never drank energy drinks before Amway and hasn't bought any since we left.
ugh those xs energy drinks were awful, I was at one IBO event where we were told that we were not allowed to bring any outside liquids in except for XS drinks.
ReplyDeletesame event we got told by an emerald in our upline that I should not leave to go to the bathroom unless a group of other women were also due to it being a disturbance to those by the door who are trying to hear the speaker on stage...
this couple had a knack of trying to make me feel like crap, sadly they did it so calmly and cheerfully
during this event as a result of my disobedience going to the restroom without waiting for a few others in my line caused me to get pulled aside for a lil conversation : "you know by not listening you are setting a bad example for your husband and making it harder for him to succeed,you do want what is best for your husband don't you?.. you know we are only telling you this because we care and want to see yous succeed" ....... I wanted so bad just to find the nearest rock to crawl under
JadenRed - I too hated those XS drinks which is why I refer to them as piss water. I tried every flavor just to make sure I hated them all. No kidding because my husband kept buying them all the time.
ReplyDeleteOur upline had no control over me. They were always bitching about me to my husband. Seeing as how I didn't want to have anything to do with Amway and didn't like any of those assholes in our upline they knew they had no control over me so they focused on my husband instead bitching to him about me. I have brought other food and drink items into major functions but for smaller meetings lasting under 4 hours I don't really recall if I needed something to drink or not. If I did I know it would not have been an Amway beverage!
The brainwashing cult control thing is why the upline tries to control you going to the bathroom. I don't recall anyone in our upline trying to control that but I have heard from other readers on my blog about the bathroom and refreshments rule.
Yes Anna bathroom and refreshments rule is among a plethora of cult induced, idiotic control measures on the clueless ambots' personal lives, here's the kicker - for their own good. It unashamedly knew no limits, neither when nor where to stop. The night owls after the night owls, prolonged majors and numerous late night weekly meetings propagate another control tool on DINKS i.e. double income no kids couples. Many kingpin cult leaders talked about it from stage and in cd's. Serious dinks should stay out late 6-7 nights a week and need not get excited with each other after they get home (presumable they should be tired) as kids could slow down their fast progress to diamond. They advised to wait to start a family until ambots made diamond or emerald, the late the better. It was thinly veiled as a joke but everyone got the message. Tragedy is some dinks actually got deluded to believe this to the bone - hey upline said.
ReplyDeleteExAmbot - I am pretty sure that I never heard our sack of shit Platinum tell anyone at Amway meetings he ran to hold off on sex or having kids. He was too much of a prude to bring up that subject at least in a group setting. Who knows what he said in private counselling settings! He was more interested in breaking up relationships anyway so perhaps the no sex thing came up then. The problem these upline assholes have is when someone like me comes along who does not like Amway and does not like any of the people in Amway that they have no control over that person. They can say whatever they want about no food or drinks or no bathroom breaks but when they come across someone who decides fuck you if I'm hungry, thirsty, or need to find the potty you upline bastards ain't gonna stop me, there's not much they can do other than bitch about it. But most Amway meetings I attended were bitch sessions anyway thinly disguised as "teachings". Bitching about the clothes someone downline wears or the car they drive hardly follows under "teaching" because that would imply someone is learning something. Well I guess we did learn hate and intolerance.
ReplyDelete