A reader shares her story:
My husband and I first got involved in Amway around 1995. We stayed in for a few months. I found the products expensive and the cleaning products did no better, and in a lot of cases worst, jobs than their lower priced name brands that can be bought at the grocery store. We shelled out about a thousand bucks in products and attended a big Amway function. It must have been Free Enterprise Days because I remember it was in the fall. Most of our friends and family had heard of Amway and no one was interested in buying the products because they cost too much money. A younger coworker of my husband’s did come to some meetings. I think he might have signed up to be an IBO but he moved to another state and we never heard of him again.
My husband and I first got involved in Amway around 1995. We stayed in for a few months. I found the products expensive and the cleaning products did no better, and in a lot of cases worst, jobs than their lower priced name brands that can be bought at the grocery store. We shelled out about a thousand bucks in products and attended a big Amway function. It must have been Free Enterprise Days because I remember it was in the fall. Most of our friends and family had heard of Amway and no one was interested in buying the products because they cost too much money. A younger coworker of my husband’s did come to some meetings. I think he might have signed up to be an IBO but he moved to another state and we never heard of him again.
That was it for Amway or so I thought.
My husband starts hanging out with this jerk he met. A vendor who comes by his workplace from time to time. The guy’s much younger than us, around 25 or so. We’re in our late 40’s now. Then one day my husband invites me to join him and the jerk ass to meet another couple at their house for coffee. I don’t think too much of it but I don’t really want to go.
I walked into an Amway trap. I was ambushed. My husband wants to get involved in Amway again? I am not happy. To make matters worse he tells me he already signed up. The other people in the room gang up on me and tell me Amway is a lot different now than it was 15 years ago. I get dragged out to a meeting. They are telling the same stuff I heard years ago. What is different? Nothing because none of our friends and family are interested in buying crappy Amway products that cost 3 or 4 times more than normal priced products. We can’t find anyone who wants to go to an Amway meeting.
Its hard to believe my husband would fall for this crap again. It’s not like we’re stupid people. I have a university degree and I’ve had a very good career. He went to technical school and has worked for the same company for many years. We might not be as rich as those Diamonds that come on stage and brag about their houses and cars and vacations but we own our house, have cars with no loans on them, take nice vacations, and have a pretty good life.
Until Amway showed up again. It’s a lot worse this time. The people in Amway are crazy. They’re nasty. They’re evil. They’re the biggest liars I’ve met in my life. They go around lying how business is going great when none of them have any customers or anybody in their downline. They all believe that by going to Amway meetings every night of the week they’ll be rich in 2 to 5 years and will have residual income coming in for the rest of their lives.
Is this recent?? You both joined again?
ReplyDeleteWhat I truly dislike about Amway is that the uplines/plats whatever tell you half truths. For example: Artistry make up is top 5 along with covergirl and so and so name brand.
TOP FIVE IN ASIA. But see its the truth they tell you its Top 5, just not in USA.
Another example:I don't work at so and so place anymore. IE I got fired and work somewhere else, BUT I still don't work at Job A anymore, they don't tell you they got fired and had to get Job B to feed my amway habit.
They also say that you shouldn't count your operating (monthly most for KAte, CDs, and site) as part of your business expenses. The fuck are you talking about? If I ran a legit business I would pay fucking close attention to my operating costs whether they are $100 or $1000. If my revenue does not cover my operating costs then I will go out of business. If my revenue does not cover my COST OF GOODS SOLD then I am selling myself out of business.
They truly do not understand how a business works
Hi Rbot. This is one of my readers stories. I thought the title would be sufficient that it was someone else's story. Part 2 of this readers story is coming up. I sent a message to my administrator to add a sentence to the front of the story to clarify that so no one is confused. Not me. Another poor souls story but really we all have the same story.
Deletewhen will mine be added? :P
DeleteIt's in the pipeline. I usually wait at least 2 months before posting a comment as a new blog post. Yours I think will also have to be a 2 day event!
Deleteawesome! thanks :D
Deletei get my dose of laughter when i come to this blog, which is almost daily.
This happened to you? Recently?
ReplyDeleteA reader contributed a long story. More story coming. I thought the title would be sufficient to suggest it was a reader but a couple of readers are confused.
DeleteAmway lied into getting people to join. I was trick and it is sad that the person who trick me was my friend. I told him I was looking for a job and he told me his company is hiring. He gave my number to his upline, and he called the next day. I was so excited thought it was an interview I type up an resume and a cover letter.
ReplyDeleteTurn out the interview was a meeting. I felt something was wrong because it was at Starsbuck instead of his office. I should have trust my instinct, now I regret it.
Long story short I was lied to and I quit the business after 9 months.
Hi Anonymous. Thanks for sharing your story. Very familiar. Amway is all about tricking people. If you're not a good liar you won't make it in Amway. Glad to hear you got out!
DeleteFor me, a coworker from many many months ago called me out of the blue. When we were working in the same office, we talked a bit, but nothing more. He never saw me work, so when he said he always noticed I was a "go-getter" at work, I immediately knew something was amiss. I was unemployed at the time, so didn't want to take the chance it'd be a missed opportunity. After the meeting (here it was in a large conference room in a hotel where everyone had to wear business formal, but the attire truly did NOT reflect the business going on... well, polar opposite... you're going to be GIVING THEM your money AND services), I knew this was BS.
DeleteDespite agreeing to go to another meeting, I REFUSED to pay him the $125 something for a starter kit. Even with the refund policy in place, the hassle of getting your $$ back from a lousy company can be a VERY expensive proposition, so I didn't spend a single cent despite one part of my brain wanting to see first hand just how BS this was, for kicks and laughs too.
Well, I got pulled into a 2nd meeting, this time at a private residence. One thing I noticed was they always seem to walk with you. I suspect they would heavily interject if you were to walk with a prospective buyer, but NOT any of the Ambots themselves. Better to have a misinformed/uneducated newcomer methinks? I told him I'd feel MUCH better if I had a REAL job, so he said he said he'd look into a position at his company.
After a few days, I had the gut feeling that him looking into an open position for me was BS. I cut my losses over the phone, and told him if you wanna hang out, great, but NOT AMWAY! In hindsight, I wish I... not necessarily cursed at him, but called him out and asked him REALLY hard questions...
-why the fuck are you guys so creepy?
-why are the meetings sooo fucking boring?
-why did the meetings make you come in business formal attire?
-you were a pretty "normal" IT guy... how the hell did you get involved in this?
-you did realize I can't even buy this crap... the products and business plan. There's no way I can sell this to anyone?
But oh well, try not to obsess over any one thing too much*
* aware of the irony of spending time here on this blog, as being in Amway meetings has caused me to find this blog and spend a lot of time here. I gotta say though, this blog is very entertaining, and still a fraction of the time I would've wasted had I did join Amway. :)
Hi Anonymous. I bet your former coworker also told you he was looking for sharp people. They all have the same spiel. I love your questions! Many of them have been topics for blog posts here. Maybe you should text him those questions! What have you got to lose? You know he's not going to fill you in on any job openings at his company because you won't support his "business". Yes this blog is a whole lot more entertaining than Amway meetings. You don't have to dress up to hang out here and you dont have to buy anything. You might still have to put up with creepy ambots who drop by with their canned Amspeak propaganda.
Delete"I am tied into some very successful people starting up a ecommerce business in the area and we are looking for a few sharp people who want to help us expand and grow in this untapped market"
Delete"I cant guarantee anything, but if you are looking for another way to make some money maybe we can sit down for a cup of coffee sometime and I can explain to what it is that we do."
Sound familiar?
oh my Gosh, Anon that the exact same thing they told me. I was looking for some extra money for grad school and once I find out Amway is not a real job, the ambots promise me that they will find me a real job in their company. That was a LIES.
DeleteI went to first conference,we car pool, and all they talk about on the way there is how much they hate their jobs, their boss and how they will quit their job (they want a limo picking them up just to prove to their boss and coworkers how rich they are).
I think it is dad they spend their weekend trying to get people to join their team. If I go to the park or the beach it will be to enjoy it, however this is not the case for Ambots.
When I was using KAte I would get the dumbest messages marked 'urgent' about how people hated their jobs and that thinking about amway got them fired up to make it through the day such a joke lol
DeleteI always got 'urgent' messages from diamonds saying that they just got out of the shower and wanted people to know he went to the doctors and that he could use more vitamin B in his diet, oh and that he was FIRED UP
Those ambots are all the same. Yup to that meet for coffee with a big shot entrepreneur and "I can't promise anything". Like they only exclusively recruit sharp go getters when the truth is they'll take anybody just to make a dime.
DeleteJust wanted to say hello. I do enjoy checking your blog from time to time. All has been quiet on the Tax Court front with respect to Amway for some time now. I guess all those IBOs are all profitable now. LOL
ReplyDeleteHi Peter. Nice to hear from you again! Yeah those IBO's are all making gazillions of dollars in residual income every month while they sit back and do nothing. Ha ha!
Delete(This may not be the best place to post this, but since this is about being recruited, it’s as good as any, I suppose.)
ReplyDelete6-4-2: THE LIES-OF-OMISSION PYRAMID.
Ambot recruiting meetings invariably include some variation of the 6-4-2 plan. It sounds so simple because it omits the hardest part of the plan: the beginning of the sales prospecting process, starting with fishing for prospects.
So let’s do that. Specifically, we want to answer this question: how many people do you have to approach to get six producers in your downline? To answer this question, we work backwards. I will use numbers for illustration, but I’m sure there are statistics out there you can use for better accuracy.
1- How many recruits do you need to get one that will build a successful downline? Let’s say 20, assuming a 95% failure rate.
2- How many people do you have to get to show up at a recruiting meeting to get one to sign up? Let’s say 5.
3- How many people do you have to approach to get one person to show up at a recruiting meeting? Let’s say 15.
Now, it’s simple multiplication. To get ONE successful downline, you need to approach 20 x 5 x 15 = 1500 people. Now remember, that’s for ONE successful downline. To get six successful downlines, you need to approach 1500 x 6 = 9000 people. 9000!
(Even 9000 is optimistic. A downline may be successful once, but it doesn’t mean that they will stay successful. Some will quit. Some will have their organization collapse. You can probably figure that at least a third of those achieving success will not be able to maintain it. So you need to keep recruiting to replace those. Long term, you will need to keep recruiting far beyond 9000.)
Do you know 9000 people? If not, how are you going to meet them? You’re certainly not going to meet them at recruiting meetings. That’s why most Ambots fail. They have no plan to meet 9000 prospects. Your primary business focus should be NOT on going to meetings and buying books and tapes, hoping your downline will just magically appear. It should be on making and executing a plan to meet those 9000 potential prospects.
Now, break that down per day. Let’s say you’re patient and are willing to wait 5 years to achieve 6-4-2 success. That means you’ll need to approach just under 5 people per day, working every day nonstop, to achieve your goal. Let’s say you’re not patient and want to achieve this goal in two years. You’ll need to approach more than 12 people per day.
Next, figure out the realistic free time you have for prospecting, subtracting from your waking hours your J.O.B. time, time listening to tapes, Ambot meeting time, keeping your existing downline brainwashed, time for family/eating/showering/shopping/travel, etc. Let’s say you somehow have three hours left for prospecting. At five prospects per day, you need to approach a prospect every 35 minutes. At 12 prospects per day, you need to approach a prospect every 15 minutes. And that’s every day, 7 days a week, being relentlessly methodical.
Now, of course, these numbers are based on assumptions, so real life will be different, but not hugely different. Sure, some people will have better closing averages, and someone unemployed certainly has more free time. Maybe you think you are a world-class schmoozer and can better these odds. You still need to do the math backwards to see how often, on average, you need to find a new prospect.
Now, let me ask you a question? How successful do you think the Amway sales plan would be if they presented the whole picture: not 6-4-2, but instead 9000-600-120-6-4-2?
AnonTB
AnonTB- your numbers look a lot better or at least more realistic than the Smway propaganda. They should be required to show both when recruiting for new ambots. If someone says you got to approach 9000 people and most of them won't be open to being scammed so you got to find thousands more to harass. Good post!
DeleteAdditional comments:
Delete1- I'm picturing Ambots reading my comment above and dismissing it. "The numbers can't be right, so this is BS." Fine, I say, run your own numbers. You can dispute my numbers, but you can't dispute my method. You are in the prospecting business. In the end, you need to calculate how many prospects per day you need to hit up to reach your goal. If you calculate that you need to pitch a prospect every, say, 45 minutes during your free time and you don't do that, odds are you will fail.
2- I've given examples of calculating for 2-year and 5-year goals. However, I'm not sure that it's even possible to build an organization taking 5+ years. The reason is that building a downline is like trying to fill a leaky bucket. If you fill the bucket faster than the leak, it will eventually fill up. But, if you fill the bucket slower than it leaks, it will never fill. In Amway, your downline is constantly quitting, leaking out of your downline bucket, so to speak. You need to replenish your downline faster than they leak out. I don't know where the threshold is, but I'd guess that taking 5-10 years to achieve your goal will add to your downline bucket too slowly to ever fill it up.
AnonTB
AnonTB - good comparison with the leaky bucket. And of course ambots will dismiss your numbers. They only believe lying Amway assholes who tell them not to believe anything that anyone who is not in Amway says.
DeleteAnon TB. I think your numbers cant be correct. To get 6 people you probably need to approach say 100. When you get these 6 they all do the same so itsythem not you doing the effort. You need to be able to identify the leaders down line and work with them. Then (and thats where your theory may not be right) the quit rate has much less impact as with you downlines you are recruiting faster into the group. The downlines are making the contacts not you. Bill Britt contacted 14000 people but he built an organisation of several hundred thousand people. I know he is an exception and was an outstanding motivator. But i think thats where your theory falls down. To build this thing you have to be outstanding at leading people. If you are you dont need anything like the numbers of contacts you state. If you are not a leader, then you can contact 100 a day and neber build it. Thats the difference i think. Very few people can leade. Hence very few make it at amway. So our conclusions are the same , ie this is almost impossible to build. But i think for different reasons. Respond if you wish as it seems you are not fooled by what uplines say
DeleteContacting 14,000 people. Wow! But yes some personalities are go go go. He's an exception. Bottom line is the bottom line and the conclusions are both the same. Leaky bucket.
DeleteI tend to agree with Anon, the number is simply too low. Albeit, we are assuming that the IBO will be directly responsible for every member of their downline, they still will meet with every new member of their downline if they are hardcore.
DeleteI think a probability matrix needs to be implemented as well. I tried it once, odds of acquiring enough people to keep a sustainable (residual income type) platinum level, with no quitters. It was astronomical, and this was just for platinum.
Really, the proof is out there in their own numbers. How many diamonds? How many IBOs? (Neglecting that diamonds maintain status, though millions of IBOs will pass in and out, and the diamond may not hold pin requirements, or even the IBOship) Simply put diamonds/IBOs. There's how many it will take to hit diamond.
Jerry
To Anonymous 2:57pm
ReplyDelete"To get 6 people you probably need to approach say 100."
Maybe someone is that good, but for the average person, they need to *recruit* over 100 people to get 6 people successful enough to be a leg in your 6-4-2 pyramid. The rest of the 100+ will quit in the first couple of years, or stay but not recruit, or recruit only a small downline.
"When you get these 6 they all do the same so itsythem not you doing the effort…The downlines are making the contacts not you."
Yes, that's true. Your downline will recruit their own downline. Some of those recruits will come with no effort by you, so they are freebies to you for your total downline.
Please understand, though, that any work you do to grow your downline legs is additional effort that I did not discuss. Before you can grow your six legs, you need to recruit those six for your personal team. This is *only* what my comment discussed. - what you need to do to build your personal team. I'm saying that you need to approach thousands of people to end up with six recruits in your direct downline successful enough to be a leg in your 6-4-2 pyramid. How many thousands? I'm saying, on average, maybe 9000. If you're a charismatic leader or a sociopathic liar, maybe you can do it by approaching 4000 instead of 9000. But it's still thousands.
If you don't know thousands of people personally, which is most of us, you will have to approach strangers. These people don't know you or trust you, so you have to approach many people to find one person gullible or desperate enough to come to a recruiting meeting.
This is a daunting challenge even for someone who is single and has no day job. Now try finding the time to prospect AND attend meetings to sign those people up AND attend rallies AND listen to motivational tapes AND manage your existing downline AND have a day job and family AND have time to eat/shop/laundry/clean/repair/shower/do something fun. This is why so few succeed in Amway, and why Amway doesn't describe "the plan" in this much detail. If they did, few would sign up.
"If you are not a leader, then you can contact 100 a day and never build it."
I agree. Good point.
AnonTB
Yes, good points AnonTB. Amway is all about tossing numbers around to the point of confusion.
Delete