Wednesday, December 22, 2010

Social security won’t be there when you retire?

I’d say just about every Amway meeting we attended one of the scare tactics the speaker used to say was “Social security won’t be there when you retire”.

Well how do they know? I’m pretty sure it will be. But I suppose like any other guesses the speaker has a 50/50 shot of getting that prediction right. So do I!

Even though I think social security will be there when I retire I have other investments and savings and a combination of all are what I hope will sustain me for the rest of my life.

People need to make decisions during their working years and hopefully most start some sort of retirement savings plan in their 20’s and add other investments to it over the years. For example save up a down payment for house while in your 20’s. Buy that house in your 20’s or 30’s and by your 50’s or certainly by retirement age your house will be paid in full. Knock off that mortgage payment and that’s a big part of monthly expenses that goes away. Also get rid of any outstanding debt by retirement age and don’t incur any further debt and that will make retirement years less stressful.

Those are the big things. Reaching retirement age without debt and owning your own home are huge. I mean who wants to hit retirement age and still be a renter? That’s hundreds of dollars you pay each month to a landlord because of poor planning in younger years.

In a previous post I estimated average monthly expenses in Amway around $700. The unknown factor is if this is disposable income or if IBO’s are running up their credit card (probably the latter!). That monthly $700 could be redirected to a mortgage payment instead of being flushed down the Amway toilet.

Our upline's goal was to strike fear in people’s hearts to scare new prospects to sign up. For a bunch of bastards who extol the virtues of “don’t say negative” they’re the most negative people I’ve ever met. Full of doom and gloom about the future, businesses shutting down, recession, people losing jobs, social security won’t be there, and blah, blah, blah. Who needs to listen to the negative shit that goes on in Amway meetings?

The speakers scare the IBO’s into thinking that social security won’t be there when they retire so they need to find some other income. Any other plans IBO’s have the upline pokes fun at them and puts them down. According to the "wisdom" of our upline bastards Amway is the only choice and all you have to do is spend 2 to 5 years working part time 10 to 15 hours a week doing the work in order to live off residual income for the rest of your life. Freedom!

Yeah right. There are better options out there than throwing your money at Amway chasing futile dreams.

Don’t think negative like our upline. Think positive. Social security will be there when you retire. (I got a 50% chance of getting that prediction right!)

Forget social security. With luck Amway won’t be around when I retire! Ha ha ha! 50% chance of me getting that prediction right too!


  1. Some ambot showed my father the plan 20 yrs ago. Saying social security/pension etc wont be around by the time he retires. My father didnt join amway and owns his home,debt free with a decent pension. The diamonds use to tell us to borrow,sell whatever we own,charge to cc just to attend functions. They are nothing more than a bunch of greedy assholes

  2. Anna, you are spot on about how negative uplines are. They are negative about your family and friends who aren't in Amway. Negative about your job and your boss. Negative about all the bad in the world and the only way to solve all your problems is to join Amway.

    What a joke.

  3. So Colin nothing's changed in 20 years if IBO's are still using the same scare tactics. The Ambot back then who said social security wouldn't be around when you dad retires was WRONG! An Amway IBO wrong about something. Now there's a huge shocker! Sounds like your dad went into retirement OK.

  4. Joecool I'm pretty sure everyone reading this blog knows how I feel about my negative upline! Ha! They were negative about us being self employed and earning more money than them when they added up both their Amway income and their J.O.B. income! They were negative because we were one of very few downline who owned our own home - and been homeowners for many years. Yup the only way to solve all our problems was to join Amway. WRONG! Our problems began after signing on with Amway. Problems were none had existed before thanks to the upline negativity.

  5. Both my parents retired ok and have no financial debt,owning their own home,etc. They arent vacationing all the time on exotic beaches of the world. Im pretty much retired also but that's cause i worked two jobs most of my life and had no kids.

  6. The term "negative" is anything in conflict with what the upline (and Amway, do a search for "negative" on this link: say it is.

    However, your "take" that a 50/50 chance of Social Security being available in a few years is false. That's like saying there is a 50/50 chance of rolling a "3" on a die, when we know it is 1:6 chance. The fact is Social Security is in trouble, for 3 major reasons: The federal government has been spending, not saving, the contrabutions, people are living longer, and less people are paying into the system than are benefiting (related to the second point).

  7. And is it a 50/50 chance that people who are involved in legal action with Amway are going to win or is that a 1:6 chance?

  8. I have no clue whether social security will be around. But i do know more than 80% of people who sign up with amway quit within a year. Maybe it's even higher % of peop quitting amway.

  9. Anna,

    A legal action is not the flip of a coin or the roll of a die. It is based on facts, not "chance."


    Perhaps you should educate yourself and get a clue. I believe the number is more like 60-70%, not over 80%.

  10. Tex, it feels like 100% quit ratio after the first yr. Sorry i didnt educate myself like you and ibofb....and you two are the only people who have a clue or understand this complex business lol. Amway cult is like brain surgery which only a few people understand or get. The 60-70% is still tough replacing people who quit this scam.

  11. 60 or 70 or 80 % - will we ever know the real numbers? It won't affect my life one way or the other! You know Colin its probably different for people like you and me who have no interest in educating ourselves on Amway. Amway has no interest in what people like us have to say or our opinions and nothing we say is going to make any difference to the way Amway does business. I imagine due to the legal issues Tex has more at stake at understanding this business and the complexity which is designed more for confusion and that's why he shows up here to educate us. Why IBOFB is obsessed with educating himself and others on everything Amway is a mystery when it doesn't appear he has anything more than a casual interest in the company as an IBO of no significant status. Maybe he's involved in legal action too and we just don't know about it???

  12. anna, Ya like most people i have other interest n hobbies besides knowing amway,their history etc. I use to think it's kinda freakish how ibofb follow critics around and if we where 1% off on some weird stat he'll be jumping all over us.

  13. Knowing everything about Amway will never be my hobby! Its fascinating reading other blogs and people's experiences and seeing the similarities but I don't digest and remember all that I've read. IBOFB is some kind of one man freak show perpetuating Amway fairy tales. I guess everyone needs a hobby.

  14. colin,

    An over 80% rate would probably result in Amway falling apart, as the actual 60-70% rate means 30-40% stay and provide the upline additional tool scam profit as well as recruit new IBOs. ibofb is a LIAR - why do you believe anything he says?


    I understood everything about Amway and the Amway Tool Scam before the lawsuit. You'll know when you're involved in legal action, you'll get a knock at your front door and presented with a lawsuit.

  15. I'd think it would be pretty hard for Amway to defend themselves when confronted with the truth.

  16. Tex, im not someone who studies stats and figures. But i do know more than 80% of the people who joined with me where out of the business maybe after 12 months. Maybe in the 15-24 month range they where out. Most people can only tolerate so much in losses before quitting. You or ibofb can come on this board and tell me my 15-24 month 80% is wrong and i should educate myself if u wish lol. I simply dont care or have time to check every little stat.

  17. They've probably never played horseshoes either!

  18. As Penn & Teller are fond of saying......Bullshit!!!
    Tex is right that the contributions are not matching the outflow, but all the govt has to do is change the retirement age to 75 to reduce the outflow. They'll make that move long before the system collapses, so Social Security will be around, it will just likely be a different animal than today. Plus, using that $700/mo to fund an IRA (RRSP Canada) would provide 336K of contributions in 40 years, which is very likely over a $1M with any kind of reasonable return. Then who gives a flying #$%& if SSA is'll have plenty to retire on :-)

  19. colin,

    I agree, you know little about stats and figures. Using your small sample and applying it across the board is not smart. You also tried changing from over 80% within a year to 15-24 month 80%. Here's a clue: Less than one year is not equal to 2 years. LOL

  20. Tex, i did expect you to knit pick my 80% figure i posted. Doesnt matter to me atleast i kept my losses with amway under 175.00. It's really not rocket science here whether it's 50% or 80% of people quitting within a yr...very few people make any serious money(anything over 100k a yr minus expenses). Had ibofb,bridget,etc tell me i didnt know the bv/pv or whatever volume needed to go platinum,diamond,founders something and that i didnt understand the business ....that i was in the old dinosaur age with tapes. I cant be a total idiot since i realize within the first week that this is a scam and didnt spend yrs,over 10k in losses,or have a broken marriage because of this scam. I rather be watching tv having a couple of beers than worry about a couple wrong stats i posted. If i said i thought 99% of people who join amway lose money....i expect someone to say wrong wrong you know jack shit lol.

  21. Graham say the govt does change the retirement age to 75. You'll still have a better chance at probably receiving some money from the govt than making a dime in amway. Sounds lame but working two jobs can get you quicker to retirement than social security. Easiest way of never retiring is being involved in amway and throwing money down the drain.

  22. colin,

    You don't have to claim over 99% of IBOs lose money, it was already proven to be true in the UK and Wisconsin courts.

  23. Hi Colin,
    My point was that the "leaders" are full of bullshit when they say that the system is going to collapse. You'll get far more money out of Social Security than you'll ever see in net profit from Amway. Best to take care of your own finances and not rely on the gov't anyway.

  24. Tex, i wouldnt know about the 99% of the peop losing money in amway. Not really obsessed with the percentages. People should just use common sense with reguards to these scams.

    Graham i agree with you with taking care of your own finances and not rely on the govt.

  25. colin,

    That's part of the reason I'm here, to educate others, including you. I'm not "obsessed with the percentages" either, I just don't believe in throwing numbers around that are inaccurate. What if 99% of IBOs made a net profit, would you still say Amway is a scam?

  26. If 99% of IBO's actually made money I'd say it was a decent opportunity and one that I'd consider. The reality is its the reverse.

  27. Tex, even if 99% of the peop made money not sure id stay. If i had to deal with jerks like ibofb or ambots all day. Also it depends on how much money we're making. If we're busting our hump just to make 10.00 a month and spending 20 hours a week that will be insane. Would be easier to just work partime at mcdonalds or burger king.

  28. You'd still be dealing with Amway jerks at McDonalds or Burger King. They hold a lot of meetings with prospects at those places. Not to mention they try to prospect the cashier that served them. Working 20 hours a week at Amway to earn $10 is stupid in itself. Buying $300 worth of Amway products just to qualify for that $10 check is the killer. If you were looking at the stock market and someone recommended a stock and said for every $300 you invest you will lose $290 I'd skip that one and be asking for advice on penny stocks that look good or which way the bull and bear are going.

  29. Dave Severn (he recruited Greg Duncan) said when asked who to prospect, "Hold a mirror up to his nose. If it fogs, show him the plan."

    Everyone cheers!! Right?

    I was fascinated by this comment and went work busting my butt trying to prospect.

    Well, the years roll by and dissention is growing ever more ugly in the ranks, he changed it to, "Well, what are you doing just showing this to anyone? Make sure they qualify."

    Um, I'm confused, Dave. Which is it? Show it to the prospect if he has a pulse, or check his credentials first?

    You first told us to never prejudge; and then change it to make it look like it's our own fault. How convenient for you.

  30. Anna,

    I realize the reality is the reverse. The biggest reason for that is the Amway Tool Scam.

  31. Anon,

    The reason Dave had to change his guidance is because of the internet. What Dave meant by "qualify" is whether the person had an opinion regarding Amway.

  32. Tex;

    How do you know that? No one ever said from stage to find out if your prospect had an opinion about Amway. You're not supposed to tell them it's amway, remember?

  33. Anon,

    On one level, you're right. The "qualifying" process does not normally mention Amway. However, it does screen out people who are likely to do an online search for Amway after they've seen the full plan that includes the "A" word.

  34. So who would you say fucked up in our case when it came to qualifying us - and I was very clear to everyone upline that I was not interested in getting involved in Amway AGAIN - because I was the one who did the online search about Amway because I was fed up with what it was doing to our relationship and finances?

  35. I used to just cringe when we'd get to the end o the board plan and the 'a' word was about to be spoken.,

    Got so sick of the total disgust from people.

    Isn't is just sick that before the internet there was no way to research it? Research is the first thing anyone would do that wanted to start a business.

    amway had us then, but no more.

  36. Anonymous I attended some board plan meetings where they never said the "A" word at all. If they did it would be at least one hour into the meeting. That quick into the meeting was rare it was usually 2 hours into the meeting.

  37. Anna,

    You fucked up, for knowing better, but getting involved again.

    Not using the A/Q word was one of the complaints I had with TEAM, and a former TEAM CEO proves Amway was upset with this as well: - #6 comes DIRECTLY from my email complaint to A/Q.


Comments are moderated but we publish just about everything. Even brainwashed ambots who show up here to accuse us of not trying hard enough and that we are lazy, quitters, negative, unchristian dreamstealers. Like we haven’t heard that Amspeak abuse from the assholes in our upline!

If your comment didn’t get published it could be one of these reasons:
1. Is it the weekend? We don’t moderate comments on weekends. Maybe not every day during the week either. Patience.
2. Racist/bigoted comments? Take that shit somewhere else.
3. Naming names? Public figures like politicians and actors and people known in Amway are probably OK – the owners, Diamonds with CDs or who speak at functions, people in Amway’s publicity department who write press releases and blogs. Its humiliating for people to admit their association with Amway so respect their privacy if they’re not out there telling everyone about the love of their life.
4. Gossip that serves no purpose. There are other places to dish about what Diamonds are having affairs or guessing why they’re getting divorced. If you absolutely must share that here – don’t name names. I get too many nosy ambots searching for this. Lets not help them find this shit.
5. Posting something creepy anonymously and we can’t track your location because you’re on a mobile device or using hide my ass or some other proxy. I attracted an obsessed fan and one of my blog administrators attracted a cyberstalker. Lets keep it safe for everyone. Anonymous is OK. Creepy anonymous and hiding – go fuck yourselves!
6. Posting something that serves no purpose other than to cause fighting.
7. Posting bullshit Amway propaganda. We might publish that comment to make fun of you. Otherwise take your agenda somewhere else. Not interested.
8. Notice how this blog is written in English? That's our language so keep your comments in English too. If you leave a comment written in another language then we either have to use Google translate to put it into English so everyone can understand what you wrote or we can hit the Delete button. Guess which one is easier for us to do?
9. We suspect you're a troublemaking Amway asshole.
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